Stranz the Minimalist!?

[Jonathan Cummings]

Michael!  

Welcome back from the dark side!  I just had the pleasure of playing your new Bull’s Bay in Charleston and found it to be a wonderful departure from your previous efforts.  

As I was shuttled the ¼ mile back into the salt marsh to the first tee I braced myself, anticipating another course with infinite acreage, expansive vistas, overcooked and improbable green complexes, and hopeless lines of attack.  I found anything but.  You could actually walk Bull’s Bay, which excluding Caledonia, is not something your courses are widely known for.  Simple broad fairways, gentle (mostly) rolling greens, exposed natural waste areas of sandy loam, a rich variety of shot problems, and a pastoral setting all add to a course with character and an honest addition to quality golf architecture.

Bull’s Bay does a good job of reminding me of Chechesee Creek, Wild Horse, and yes even in places Sand Hills and Pacific Dunes.  If I forget the 2 million cubic miles (oh sorry, cubic yards) of dirt you moved to create the 120’ Mount Bull Bay (it is so strikingly out of place for the SC low country that seeing it sent Close Encounters chills up and down my back) and the oddly repeated 9th and 18th, you have created a winner here.  Maybe this is because this is your first private effort or first home effort (I understand you have property adjoining the course) but whatever, I think BB will get good marks from the raters and others.  It sure gets good marks from me.

Well done…

JC

(Other GCA-ers played here??)

[Scott_Burroughs]

Jonathan (Cummings?),

There have been several threads on Bulls Bay, some recently.  All have been complimentary that I remember.

[CharlestonBuckeye]

I "enjoyed" it and thought it was better than anything he has done to date, minus Caledonia.

9 & 18 in my opinion are weak in that they don't represent low-country golf with their uphill, blind green approaches.  Their similarity further lessens their appeal in my opinion.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Scott - Thanks for the directions, I'll look up the old thread on BB.

- Cummings

[Jim_H]

I don't know much of his work, but he has been hired to redo--not just restore--the Shore Course at Monterey Peninsula CC.  The Shore Course is on a beautiful piece of land, and everyone is hopeful that the new course will be spectacular.  The project may begin this Fall, subject to my legal issues.  Anyone have any comments on this choice and the prospects for a good result?

[A.G._Crockett]

Jim H,
When the course is finished, there is every likelihood that it will be:
     a. unlike anything else in the area
     b. somewhat to very controversial
     c. visually deceptive
     d. a lot of fun to play
I truly love Strantz courses.  Not everyone does...

[Robert "Cliff" Stanfield]

In August I had the pleasure of playing Tobacco Road again, while in Pinehurst.  Absolutely loved the course.  The holes are rememberable and fun to play.  Maybe the double dogleg a bit over the top, all in all a fun course.

The par threes are extremely good.  I like the green shapes and possible hole placements, also the multiple tees from different angles are great!

Bulls Bay,

I did not get to play this course but I have to say that it looks great.  The only hole that really looked out of sorts was the second par five 90 degree left dogleg, with water down the left side.

The rest of the course looked to be funa dn full of interesting greens.  The back nine area near the clubhouse is great.  Really liked the par 3 green on nthe backside of the clubhouse.  The land and use of striping effect sand spots in the rough reminded me of Shinnecock....as well as the clubhouse sitting on the hill and the greens playing into the hillsides.  I know its not Shinnecock but its definitely an interesting course.

The par 3's once again are visually awesome.  I have to say that Strantz has a great ability to give an experience to the golfer.  Tobacco Road was funa nd required accuracy, but both are just very scenic.

[Craig Van Egmond]

JimH,

      I must admit I was surprised when I first heard that Stranz had been picked to redo the Shore course, it seemed like an odd choice. It really is a very good property and it will be interesting to see what Stranz can come up with.

[ted janeczek]

i too, would echo  jonathan's sentiments as i played it last week. never having played a strantz, i didn't know what to expect, other than "eclecticism". i was pleasantly surprised by bulls bay and the natural and "manufactured natural" elements which blended in quite well. good set of par 3's in particular and some really neat touches, like bunkers blending into cart paths, etc.

[Jonathan Cummings]

AGC,

The best advise is to limit Michael's canvas.  With acreage contraints Stranz is less likely to veer from the golfing foreground and more likely to concentrate his interesting talents to the immediate golf playing field as opposed to the mid- and background.

Cost you less, too.

JC

[Mike_Cirba]

Jonathan, Ted, Charleston;

Thanks for the report on Bull's Bay.  Not getting a chance to get over there was my only regret of my recent trip to Charleston.

Strantz is definitely an architect with amazing potential, even if he is still learning the meaning of restraint.

[Craig_Rokke]

Since we're on the subject of Strantz, I'll mention that a  local Phila. golf writer, Tony Leodora, thinks that a Strantz-designed course would really leave an indelible imprint on the Phila. golf scene (Greg Norman is his other choice). I agree, but does Strantz ever stray from the Virginia, Carolina's region that he seems to prefer? The article almost seems to suggest that we could soon see Strantz in the region. What are the chances?

[Michael Whitaker]

Jonathan - What do you mean by "limit Michael's canvas?" Do you mean restrict the amount of land he has available to work with? He built Tobacco Road and Caledonia on about 85 acres each. How limiting do you want to be?

I couldn't disagee with you more about Strantz' designs. You said you that you braced yourself "anticipating another course with infinite acreage, expansive vistas, overcooked and improbable green complexes, and hopeless lines of attack." Where, on which courses, have you encountered these features you discribe? I have found Mike's courses to be exactly the OPPOSITE of what you have described?

Strantz' courses are picturesque... in every sense of the word. And, probably, some of the most fun and interesting courses to play in this country. I have never had an uninteresting round of golf on a Strantz course. I haven't always had a great score... but, that was my fault, not his.

The thing I like about Strantz is he is not trying to recreate his version of some other designer's work. He's not trying to build the "old country" over here or trying to copy what some other "famous" designer has done. And, he is not trying to cater to the "ratings crowd." Mike could create "safe" courses that "rate well" if he wanted to... he used to work for Tom Fazio. But, he is unique and I appreciate him for being unique.

You guys always try to compare Mike's courses to what other people are doing and that simply isn't appropriate. You are mixing apples and oranges. Picasso was Picasso. Rembrandt was Rembrandt. You don't compare Picasso to Rembrandt. They didn't work in the same style. It doesn't make one a better, or less, talented artist than the other... just different. And when I read comments like your's above I scratch my head and wonder if we have played the same courses.

My recommendation to anyone who has the opportunity to play a Mike Strantz course is DO SO. But, the first time around, play it from a tee that you think is too short for your ability. You'll have a much better time and you will feel challenged to tackle the course again. It's kind of like playing one of the par 68 sub-6000 yard links courses in Scotland... they look easy on paper until you start playing them, then they eat your lunch the first time out.

Give Strantz a break. His courses WILL stand the test of time.

[Robert "Cliff" Stanfield]

Yes Clem-

I agree totally, every course that I have seen of Strantz has been very pcturesque and fun!  I think I felt the same way when I read an above comment about hoping he would hold back on some project(loose interpretation of above comments).  

It made me want to chime in that if thats the case maybe the property should hire an architect that has no creative ability and just a desire to get a check.  To me Strantz courses show a real desire and ambition which, in some circles in the design community, has disappeared!  It seems to me that he puts all his creative efforts in every hole which equals that he is earning his design fee.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Clem my boy,

I like Stranz courses too.  Caledonia has always been my favorite course on the Strand.  I've not played TR (heard good things about it, tho) but have played and evaluated True Blue, New Kent and Stonehouse.

Stranz does better with less land (which is supported by you TR comment).  He badly overkills when given too much land.

Here's a test for you.  Take a stopwatch and start it as you leave the clubhouse at Stonehouse.  Stop it when you get to the first tee.  Play the hole.  When you get back to the cart restart the stopwatch stopping it at the second tee.  Continue on through your round like this.  When you return to the clubhouse after 18 look at the watch.  It will say 45 minutes!  New Kent and True Blue are not far behind this.

Craig - Stranz has some pretty serious health issues.  I'm not sure how much new work he is taking on.

JC

[A.G._Crockett]

I'm glad that so many GCA members like Strantz's work.  When I first played Tobacco Road, on virtually every hole I stood on the tee and thought "What a hard hole!" and thought carefully about how to play it.  On virtually every hole, after holing out, I thought "Wow, what a cool golf hole--I want to play it again NOW!"  It was one of the most enjoyable days I have ever spent on a golf course, and I've felt the same way everytime since.  
I agree that his courses will stand the test of time.

[Ken_Cotner]

but does Strantz ever stray from the Virginia, Carolina's region that he seems to prefer? The article almost seems to suggest that we could soon see Strantz in the region. What are the chances?

Craig,

I've also heard that Strantz basically spends full-time at the site of whatever course he has going, and likes to get home weekly or so to see his family, so that has limited his opportunities outside of Carolina.

Ken

[Michael Whitaker]

Jonathan - Don't be so patronizing, my boy.

Your stopwatch "test" in no way justifies the comments you made above. The Virginia courses may have long stretches between some of the holes, so what. Do you know why? Have you talked with Mike about the reason for the distances between holes? Have you, at least, read the interview with Mike on this web site? Evidently not. Here is an excerpt from the interview:

Question: Were the long walks between holes at Royal New Kent and Stonehouse unavoidable?

Answer: In short, yes. It must be remembered that both Royal New Kent and Stonehouse are real estate development golf courses and that when combined with the existing contours at both sites, it was pretty much a given that we would not have short distances between all the golf holes.

I can only think of ONE hole that requires substantial travel distance at True Blue and that is the trip from the 15th green to the 16th tee... but, there is a reason the distance is necessary... there is a condo complex in the way! And the trip to the 16th tee does not make True Blue any less of a golf course. If you think that trip to the 16th tee justifies your comments you need to find a different avocation and stop evaluating golf courses, post-haste.

The only "test" I need when I play a new golf course is whether or not I find the creation to be interesting, attractive, challenging, creative and fun. If there is some unusual feature to it, like long distances between some of the holes, I try to consider why the designer made this choice... and I give him the benefit of the doubt since he was there from the beginning and had to deal with the constraints with which he was presented.

I state again, your comments about Mike's courses are erroneous and I challenge you to back up any of your criticisms with factual examples. Let's use True Blue as our test case. Where on True Blue did you find infinite acreage, expansive vistas, overcooked and improbable green complexes, and hopeless lines of attack?

[Jonathan Cummings]

Clem - I'll post you an email response..

[Michael Whitaker]

If it's all the same to you, I'd rather see your response posted in the open on this discussion board.

Also, I thought of another "trip" between green and tee on True Blue... from the 14th green to the 15th tee. But, again, I say, "So what!" It doesn't affect the playability of the course at all... especially for a resort "cart only" facility.