CC of Buffalo (Ross) ny

[mark chalfant]

Has any restoration work been done on this  course which  has a quarry in play ? what are the standout holes and greeens
thanks.

[Dan Herrmann]

Mark,
Anxious to hear anything about CC Buffalo.  As a kid growing up in Tonawanda, CC Buffalo was the holy grail of golf.  We always looked longingly at the club when driving on Sheridan Drive.  

I played the club at the other end of Sheridan - Sheridan Park, home of the 1962 USGA Publinx.

I've heard nothing but good things about it.

[jim_lewis]

Mark and Dan:

I had the pleasure of playing the CC of Buffalo early one morning about a month ago. I have played about 60 Ross courses, and this was one of my favorites. The thing that seperates it from other Ross courses I have seen is that a portion of it is routed through an abandoned quarry. It may be the first course in the US to incorporate a quarry site. Ross's routing is brilliant. His use of the quarry is restrained. Aside from the par 3 sixth hole and the par 4 eleventh hole, both of which are brialliantly located in the quarry, most of the remainder of the course is routed over fairly level and gently sloping terrain. Both #6 and #11 are unique holes. The green for #6 sits on a 25-30ft high plateau surrounded by the floor of the quarry. Visually the green complex looks like a miniature version of DiamondHead. Only a photo (which I don't have) does it justice. The 11th is carved through the floor of the quarry, over a creek, to a green that is located up on the rim of the quarry.

When played as a 6435yd par 70, the par fours range in length from the 301yd 5th and the 315yd 10th to the 451yd 7th and the 478yd 18th.  

Unfortunately, I was not able to speak to anyone who could discuss any restoration or changes in the course. There was no evidence of significant departure from Ross's original design. They did loose several trees due to a severe winter storm a few years ago. Unfortunately they have planted many replacement trees.

The course is a real pleasure to play and probably is a legitimate candidate for ranking as a top 100 classic US course

Jim Lewis

[Donnie Beck]

How does it compare to Grover Cleveland?

[Dan Herrmann]

Donnie - that's not even funny  

Ok - it IS funny!

[SPDB]

Can someone shed some light on Park Country Club?

[wsmorrison]

Was the quarry in use prior to the 1923 Ross redesign?

[JNC Lyon]

Wayne Morrison: the Donald Ross design on the quarry site was the first and only layout ever built on the site, as the Grover Cleveland Park Club (original CCB) was located on a different site.

The current course itself is fantastic and appears very true to the original design.  The bunkers are unlike normal "Ross bunkers," but, according to old photos, they are consistent with his original layout.  The par threes at CCB are all fantastic, and the quarry holes are a real treat, totally different from any course in Western NY.  One of my fave all-time Ross courses.

Standout holes/greens are as follows:

3: A very neat hole on flat land, but with the green perfectly bunkered in front and built up at the back to hide a very deep bunker long.

6: The ultimate volcano hole with a green out in the quarry on a 175 par three. The green itself is very severe and extremely large.  It is by far the most unique Ross par three I've played in my life.

7-9: a bruising stretch of holes consisting of a monster par three sandwiched between two solid par fours.

10: a neat short four with an extremely interesting green, breather between 7-9 and quarry stretch of 11-13.

11: uneventful tee shot is followed by an all-or-nothing second shot over the quarry.  Beautiful green site on the far side of the quarry.

12: volcano number two, playing over the quarry again but with a completely different feel from number 6.  It can be seen in "Golf Has Never Failed Me"

13: awesome long par five with a reverse camber fairway and a green on the far side of a rock wall at the "end" of the quarry.  The green is the best on the course, triangular in shape and extremely wild.

16: final par three is a brilliantly-routed uphill reverse redan.  very cool.

18: Another bruiser of a par four to cap the round, both shots are uphill to a large, slanting green at the base of a rock garden.

SBarry: Park CC is also a neat golf course based around a river that runs through the property.  The terrain all feeds to the river and makes for some interesting golf holes.  The fifth is 230 par three with a heroic carry over an elbow of the river.  Ten is stellar par three up and away from the river, very unique. 14 is a fun short four that plays up a bunker-lined bluff off the tee.  The main authority on PCC is Ian Andrew, who did some restoration work there a while back.

[Gerry B]

played there a couple of years ago - thought the 1st four holes were average - then it became a really good course.

the only clunker i remember after the 4th was the par 5 - 17th -did not seem to fit with the rest of the course -and aesthetically an eye sore- power lines visible -  but the finisher had a nice green complex set below the clubhouse with some beautiful stone work

good use of the quarry - especially the par 3  - 6th

worth seeing

[Daryl "Turboe" Boe]

Mark and Dan:

I had the pleasure of playing the CC of Buffalo early one morning about a month ago. I have played about 60 Ross courses, and this was one of my favorites. The thing that seperates it from other Ross courses I have seen is that a portion of it is routed through an abandoned quarry. It may be the first course in the US to incorporate a quarry site. Ross's routing is brilliant. His use of the quarry is restrained. Aside from the par 3 sixth hole and the par 4 eleventh hole, both of which are brialliantly located in the quarry, most of the remainder of the course is routed over fairly level and gently sloping terrain. Both #6 and #11 are unique holes. The green for #6 sits on a 25-30ft high plateau surrounded by the floor of the quarry. Visually the green complex looks like a miniature version of DiamondHead. Only a photo (which I don't have) does it justice. The 11th is carved through the floor of the quarry, over a creek, to a green that is located up on the rim of the quarry.

When played as a 6435yd par 70, the par fours range in length from the 301yd 5th and the 315yd 10th to the 451yd 7th and the 478yd 18th.  

Unfortunately, I was not able to speak to anyone who could discuss any restoration or changes in the course. There was no evidence of significant departure from Ross's original design. They did loose several trees due to a severe winter storm a few years ago. Unfortunately they have planted many replacement trees.

The course is a real pleasure to play and probably is a legitimate candidate for ranking as a top 100 classic US course

Jim Lewis

I played there last fall (and I do mean fall as it was pretty darn cold for a guy from SC playing in Buffalo).  I loved the course, I think I might have taken my camera, I will have to check when I get home this weekend to see what I have.

[Dan Herrmann]

You'll see that the 1912 US Open was contested at CCB.  However, that took place up at land that is now part SUNY/Buffalo and part Grover Cleveland (muni) golf course.  I don't think any of the holes at Grover Cleveland date from that era.  And the course has suffered numerous challenges, not the least of which was the dumping of many tons of unclean snow duing the blizzard in 1977

[wsmorrison]

JNC Lyon,

Thanks for clearing that up.  The write ups of CCB on the internet mentioned that it was a redesign by Ross and not a new design on a different site.  Funny how the various sites used the same content.  Anyway, Jim Lewis stated,

"The thing that seperates it from other Ross courses I have seen is that a portion of it is routed through an abandoned quarry. It may be the first course in the US to incorporate a quarry site."

Merion East has a rather famous quarry that was put into play 11 years before CCB.  It comes into play on holes 16-18.  I suspect that Ross surely would have known about it and maybe been inspired by it.  Merion East was a celebrated course from the start, there was an Amateur played in 1916 and one scheduled in 1924, the year after CCB was completed.

[JNagle]

CC of B is a great course.  I think it is low on the radars of most simply because of its location.  Rochester is full of great classic courses (six of them Ross) and you get the eastern portion of the state (Metro and LI) with another plethera of great courses.  The course has an interesting variety of topography with holes routed through quarries, landing areas routed at ridgelines (#3); greens situated just beyond ridges (hole #8).....

#17 has been modified and I believe that may be the only non-original green.  Ross' plans reveal and heavily bunkered  strategic course.  The original course had 114 bunkers.  Quite of few of them were constructed in duets, many others were the old "fore" bunkers set just off the tees on a diagonal.  In fact many of the old (NLE) bunkers were set at diagonals creating interesting carries and strategies.  Currently there are 84 bunkers.  The greens are very good Ross greens with swells, plateaus, ridges, rolls and swales indicative of his site presence and similar to other courses built in the 3-4 year span on 1923-1927.

I will attempt to find some other photos.


Hole #11 looking from #7 fairway

Hole #6 appraoching quarry along right of #5 fairway

Hole #6 from tee

[corey miller]

The General manager at my club came from CC of Buffalo.  It is my understanding that they did do a renovation during his tenure at the club.  He was helpful in helping us navigate the politics of the situation with members.

I have seen other photos (not sure where) the course looks very interesting.  

Maybe some raters will take the time to visit this club along with the others Jim N mentions.  Of course, maybe the golfing public would benefit more by another  person's rating on National.

[jim_lewis]

Wayne:

I concede your point regarding the quarry holes at Merion. They were, if fact, built before CCB and are more famous. They may even be better.

Jim

[wsmorrison]

Jim,

Does the way Ross utilized the quarry lead to a speculation that Merion's quarry holes were a conceptual inspiration?

Putting aside the earlier use of a quarry, the photos that Jim Nagle posted sure do show a very interesting golf course!  That 6th hole looks very weird but exciting.

[JNagle]

Here is a photo from a 1931 issue of Golf Illustrated.