What course is this?

[SPDB]

Glenn:

Curious what you found so memorable about 10 at Camargo. I'm not a big fan. I've thought its a pretty mundane hole, and not nearly as interesting as, say, 12. Speaking of which, Tom D. - what does that hole look like now, i.e. has the work to it been significant?

[Glenn Spencer]

SPBD,

I understand that it could potentially not be everyone's cup of tea. The first thing about the hole that I like is the length of it. 455 is nice and long, but not too long. A good length. I like the gentle movement to the left off the tee. It really suits my eye. The woods are there on the right, but not very obtrusive. You can't completely play away from the left side off the tee, but it is a safe option. The approach shot is my favorite part of the hole. The green just sits up there and it is extremely intimidating to my eyes at least. One has to only imagine what is long and when getting there, finds that it falls off and can lead to some bare lies and a lot of trouble chipping back to a slick elevated green. The ball has to hit on the green basically to stay up there and the front right bunker is a nasty place. For me, I can't imagine a hole having much more yet staying subtle for the most part. A front right pin and that hole is as exciting as I have played.

12? Everywhere I look, it is listed as one of the best holes in the world. I think it is very solid from 75 yards in, in fact, spectacular, but I am not a huge fan of the tee shot. I would never challenge the right side, usually a 3-wood or 2-iron down the left side. Right seemed like too much of a penalty in some ways, because you still don't have much after your drop. For some, I can see it as an exhilirating hole, but I just take a 5-iron in and be happy.

Which par 5 do you prefer? 2 or 17? In some ways, respectively, 12 and 10 are similar to those holes in what they stand for, no?

[Tom_Doak]

There hasn't been a whole lot of work on the 12th hole other than restoring the cross bunkers.

We believe the hole was originally planned to be a version of the 4th at Lido, with a much longer way around to the left on another ridgetop ... but there is no evidence that it was ever cleared and built that way, and it's pretty impractical today because everyone would play the shorter route as they do now.

[Dan Moore]

Avon Fields (Ross)... it's a muni in Cincy, not private.  

I thought this was a Langford/Moreau course.  Par 66 4,963 yds.  

[John_Cullum]

I have always considered the tee shot a 'poor man's' Merion #1. It is cocktails at Camargo and obviously lunch at Merion that add the flavor.

I find this surprising. Is lunch at Merion necessary to make the day really worthwhile?

[JESII]

John,

I think it's more that you're trying not to ruin anyone's lunch with your tee shot on #1 at Merion...whether you've had any or not. Although, it might be better to skip lunch so you're belly is empty the first time going to that tee...if you've got a 12:30 or so time...

[John_Cullum]

I see what you mean now. I was thinking it like Muirfield or Garden City, where so many wax poetically about the clubhouse experience.

[Richard Hetzel]

Donald Ross did NOT design Avon Field, that is incorrect. In fact, I don't think anyone really knows who did design it....fun little golf course, par 66 no par five holes at all. Best kept muni secret in Cincinnati.