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Kevin_Reilly

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Courses that would most benefit from Cartpath-elimination
« on: February 16, 2007, 03:53:27 PM »
Watching Riviera this week and Pebble last week, I am/was struck by the intrusion of "visible cartpath lines" on each of the courses.  

Neither of these courses is a bear to walk (eg Kapalua) or in an hot/humid climate (insert desert course name here), so a walking-only policy (with caddies if need be) wouldn't be hazardous to anyone's health.  

The benefits of course of a landscape free of paths are widened playing corridors, better aesthetics and better turf conditions.  

The cost of such a policy would have to be borne by the members/guests at Riviera and the resort guests at Pebble.

I picked these two courses because they would seem to fit the type of course that could (in this day and age) institute such a change...golf-focused private clubs or high-end resort (with Bandon the model for the latter).  Other types of public courses (Bethpage notwithstanding) likely can't afford it or would not be able to do it because of demand from their customers.

Any other courses that would fit the above?
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"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Courses that would most benefit from Cartpath-elimination
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2007, 03:58:10 PM »
Quote from: Kevin_Reilly on February 16, 2007, 03:53:27 PM
...so a walking-only policy (with caddies if need be) wouldn't be hazardous to anyone's health.  
...

I am sorry, but walking is always beneficial to ones health.
Riding a cart is the hazardous thing.
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Doug Ralston

Re:Courses that would most benefit from Cartpath-elimination
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2007, 04:06:21 PM »
Careful;

Someone will pound you on the head with an ADA!

Doug
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Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Courses that would most benefit from Cartpath-elimination
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2007, 04:13:05 PM »
Actually ADA does not care about cart paths... to the extent that Pebble has had to allow specialized carts ON THE GREENS before. The cart was more along the lines of one of the ones used by retiress and had skinny tires... Players behind were not amused... nor was the maintenance staff.

Now if the elimination of paths precluded the ability for moptorized vehicles to get around then it would be a problem. Then again it might be a way to address an issue not exaclty grouned in common sense.
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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Courses that would most benefit from Cartpath-elimination
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2007, 04:13:07 PM »
Doug,

I am already being pounded on the head with ADA. I work on VHDL which was derived from ADA. (Inside nerd joke).
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Courses that would most benefit from Cartpath-elimination
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2007, 04:15:27 PM »
Quote from: Garland Bayley on February 16, 2007, 03:58:10 PM
Quote from: Kevin_Reilly on February 16, 2007, 03:53:27 PM
...so a walking-only policy (with caddies if need be) wouldn't be hazardous to anyone's health.  
...

I am sorry, but walking is always beneficial to ones health.
Riding a cart is the hazardous thing.


King's Putter Stone Eagle?
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"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Courses that would most benefit from Cartpath-elimination
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2007, 04:27:33 PM »
Quote from: Kevin_Reilly on February 16, 2007, 04:15:27 PM
Quote from: Garland Bayley on February 16, 2007, 03:58:10 PM
Quote from: Kevin_Reilly on February 16, 2007, 03:53:27 PM
...so a walking-only policy (with caddies if need be) wouldn't be hazardous to anyone's health.  
...

I am sorry, but walking is always beneficial to ones health.
Riding a cart is the hazardous thing.


King's Putter Stone Eagle?

I admit that one has to be done at night.
 ;D
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Dan Boerger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Courses that would most benefit from Cartpath-elimination
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2007, 04:43:31 PM »
A buddy and I were watching the play from Riviera last night and thought the same thing about the cart paths. The Players Club at Deer Creek in Omaha has a hole where the cart path actually crosses in front of the green (I think 40 yards out or so).
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"Man should practice moderation in all things, including moderation."  Mark Twain

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Courses that would most benefit from Cartpath-elimination
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2007, 04:58:05 PM »
Cape Breton Highlands Links.

The course was walking-only until 1996. Some of the cart paths installed are outrageous.
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jeffmingay.com

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Courses that would most benefit from Cartpath-elimination
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2007, 05:21:30 PM »
I don't see the big problem here.  Just aim for the tarmac/concrete ones and you will get your firm and fast conditions.  ;D

Besides who doesn't love getting that cart path assisted 350 yard drive every now and then.  8)
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PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Courses that would most benefit from Cartpath-elimination
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2007, 05:50:22 PM »
tell you what might be the single worst cart path:  the one between the hills on Ekwanok's 7th...a great hole on a great course...with that unbelievably ugly thing :(
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199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Doug Ralston

Re:Courses that would most benefit from Cartpath-elimination
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2007, 05:51:53 PM »
Kalen;

I have made that same joke several times. The reactionary element here was not amused [in fact, they never have acknowledged it].  ;)

Doug
« Last Edit: February 16, 2007, 05:52:25 PM by Doug Ralston »
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Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Courses that would most benefit from Cartpath-elimination
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2007, 05:58:24 PM »
Pasatiempo is another one, of course.  
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Courses that would most benefit from Cartpath-elimination
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2007, 06:05:19 PM »
Quote from: Doug Ralston on February 16, 2007, 05:51:53 PM
Kalen;

I have made that same joke several times. The reactionary element here was not amused [in fact, they never have acknowledged it].  ;)

Doug

lol, well any proceeds I get on the joke, I'll make sure to kick some dividends over to you as a tribute.
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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Courses that would most benefit from Cartpath-elimination
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2007, 06:20:24 PM »
Quote from: Doug Ralston on February 16, 2007, 05:51:53 PM
Kalen;

I have made that same joke several times. The reactionary element here was not amused [in fact, they never have acknowledged it].  ;)

Doug

From Websters
joke: "the humorous element in a situation"

Now when you come up with anything humorous, let us know.
 ;D
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Courses that would most benefit from Cartpath-elimination
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2007, 06:28:37 PM »
Yikes, tough crowd  :o  ;D
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Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Courses that would most benefit from Cartpath-elimination
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2007, 08:57:10 PM »
Olympic Club (Lake) would benefit.

Yale has some awful cart paths.
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ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Courses that would most benefit from Cartpath-elimination
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2007, 09:02:29 PM »
Funny you mention Yale. I don't even remember there being cartpaths.

I don't think Pasatiempo could get rid of cartpaths given the conditions in the winter.

When watching on TV are you seeing the cartpaths from the air?
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"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Courses that would most benefit from Cartpath-elimination
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2007, 09:40:58 PM »
Quote from: ed_getka on February 16, 2007, 09:02:29 PM
I don't think Pasatiempo could get rid of cartpaths given the conditions in the winter.

Instead of "cart path only" go walking only?  And as much as I'm not a caddie-advocate, that is one course where a caddie could be helpful to guests.
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"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

ed_getka

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Re:Courses that would most benefit from Cartpath-elimination
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2007, 09:48:49 PM »
Kevin,
   Good point. Pasatiempo would be a good place for caddies. Walking only may be a bit much for some without caddies. I don't find it difficult at all, but I have been there with some golfers who usually walk and it wore them out. Of course if the perception of pullcarts/trolleys here would change that could take care of the issue too. Of course it is not just perception as there is the revenue part of it that makes pullcarts less attractive.
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"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Courses that would most benefit from Cartpath-elimination
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2007, 10:35:28 PM »
Quote from: ed_getka on February 16, 2007, 09:02:29 PM
When watching on TV are you seeing the cartpaths from the air?

Mostly from the blimp shots, but it appears that the cart paths are continuous, so they appear in many of the broad camera shots.
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"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Gary Slatter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Courses that would most benefit from Cartpath-elimination
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2007, 11:14:25 AM »
Where would course maintenance vehicles drive on courses with no "cart" paths?  IMO our own course vehicles do the most damage as they tend to use the same route all the time.
I get annoyed early in the morning when I see so many tracks BEFORE any golfers start.  The No Tracking rule is difficult to enforce.  Our Lucaya course has very few cart paths as does the Reef and we consider them vehicle paths rather than cart paths.
I would think Pebble uses the paths so they can $tay open in wet weather. I'd love to know how many utility carts are in use at Pebble?
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Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

JohnV

Re:Courses that would most benefit from Cartpath-elimination
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2007, 12:57:50 PM »
Cart paths are important.  Otherwise how could the average drink cart girl find her way around the course.  ;)
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Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Courses that would most benefit from Cartpath-elimination
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2007, 01:04:13 PM »
Kevin - I read your thread and decided the answer was every club in the world with cart paths. Until...........

John - One of the finest quotes ever, short, sweet and to the point.

Playing in Dubai last year they had 2 carts travelling around the course, one was the drinks cart the other the iced towels cart.
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Cave Nil Vino

wsmorrison

Re:Courses that would most benefit from Cartpath-elimination
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2007, 02:16:06 PM »
How many courses do not allow carts except for medical excuse?  

Around Philadelphia I can think of three:  Merion East, Pine Valley and I believe the first course at Stonewall.  The look of courses without any paths at all is quite a bit nicer than with paths, especially as the positioning of the paths is not always well done.

Are there recent innovations that are aesthetically pleasing alternatives to macadam or concrete paths?  
« Last Edit: February 17, 2007, 02:18:22 PM by Wayne Morrison »
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