Ross and Augusta

[David Stamm]

A few months back I had mentioned some info I had read that suggested that Ross had been in the running for the job at ANGC based on what I read in Fay's book. Brad and others had mentioned that there was not any evidence to support that and I believe them. Having said that, I just finished reading Lee Pace's "The Spirit of Pinehurst" and he mentions Charles Price and he (Price) says that Ross and Jones had an agreement to do the course. But when Jones visited CP and Pasa., he decided to go with Mack. instead. He goes on to say this angered Ross and set side all work to concentrate on his final plans for No.2.

This is not to suggest that Brad and others that responded are wrong, I'm just inquiring if anyone knows where Price could've come up with this info??

[BCrosby]

David -

Is that Pace recalling a conversation with Price? Or is that something Price actually wrote? There were lots of rumours to that effect.

What Price has written is that when Ross saw ANGC in '34 (maybe '35), he was very impressed. So much so that he stopped work on his new No. 4, and went back and made changes to No. 2.

I would love to know what changes Ross made to No. 2 at that time. (Does Pace talk about them in his book?) Price seems to suggest - though doesn't say directly - that Ross's final version of No. 2 was influenced by ANGC.  

It's hard to say how much credence we ought give to Price. He was very well-connected. He was a close friend of Jones, but he tends to be gossipy. Which is a reason why I like his stuff. But he was also a wonderful writer who is vastly under appreciated. Price had a more folksy style, but he was every bit as good as HWW.

Bob

 

[Patrick_Mucci]

David Stamm,

Donald Ross redesigned the Augusta Country Club in 1927, so I would imagine that he was very familiar with the adjacent property, before and after it's purchase by Jones's interests.

I wonder how having "another" Ross design, contiguous to Augusta Country Club would be perceived by RTJ in light of his desire to bring his dream to fruition.

It must have been a concern of his.

Ross's redesign of Augusta CC may have eliminated him as a viable candidate for the ANGC job.

Ross had also designed and redesigned many courses in Georgia prior to 1934, so perhaps Jones was looking for a departure, architecturally, from what already existed, and AM seemed like a prudent choice

I think more of a case can be made for NOT selecting Ross.

[David Stamm]

David -

Is that Pace recalling a conversation with Price? Or is that something Price actually wrote? There were lots of rumours to that effect.

What Price has written is that when Ross saw ANGC in '34 (maybe '35), he was very impressed. So much so that he stopped work on his new No. 4, and went back and made changes to No. 2.

I would love to know what changes Ross made to No. 2 at that time. (Does Pace talk about them in his book?) Price seems to suggest - though doesn't say directly - that Ross's final version of No. 2 was influenced by ANGC.  

It's hard to say how much credence we ought give to Price. He was very well-connected. He was a close friend of Jones, but he tends to be gossipy. Which is a reason why I like his stuff. But he was also a wonderful writer who is vastly under appreciated. Price had a more folksy style, but he was every bit as good as HWW.

Bob

 

Bob, I'm not sure Pace's info is quoted directly from Price or what. But I'll quote from the book:

"The great Bob Jones had praised Ross's work at AGCC, according to to Price, and Ross thought he had an agreement with this legend that he would build Jones' dream course in his native Georgia. But when Jones played CPC in California, he nominated it's architect, Alister Mackenzie, for the co-design that is now ANGC. An angered Rosse set aside all work to concentrate on his final plans for No. 2. He was going to bring in, first, the finest golf course in the South."


Pace doesn't mention at this point any specific work Ross made in response to this happening to him, but does mention that Ross hired 8 full time foremen for his company and could afford daily hands on attention to #2.


Patrick,

I see what you mean. I agree, it probably worked against Ross in regards to geting the project because of all the work he had already peformed around the area, and especially at Augusta CC. It would've been another Ross course for the area and perhaps not have stood out. Perhaps the stories we hear about Ross getting the project had to do with Roberts and others knowing Ross (by reputation) and they assumed that he would be the man for the job, but Jones might have been thinking what you are saying and after seeing Mack and his work suggested him.

[Jon Earl]

Ross had also designed and redesigned many courses in Georgia prior to 1934, so perhaps Jones was looking for a departure, architecturally, from what already existed, and CBM seemed like a prudent choice

Patrick

Careful with the typos. You don't want to start a thread about CBM not getting enough design credit for another classic course. Who knows where it will lead

Interestingly, David Owen makes no reference to Ross at all in Making of the Masters which, if the blurb is to believed, is the authoratative account of the founding of the club.

PS Slightly off the topic of this thread, Owen states that MacKenzie only got the Cypress Point job because Seth Raynor died. Is this true?

[David Stamm]

Ross had also designed and redesigned many courses in Georgia prior to 1934, so perhaps Jones was looking for a departure, architecturally, from what already existed, and CBM seemed like a prudent choice

Patrick

Careful with the typos. You don't want to start a thread about CBM not getting enough design credit for another classic course. Who knows where it will lead

Interestingly, David Owen makes no reference to Ross at all in Making of the Masters which, if the blurb is to believed, is the authoratative account of the founding of the club.

PS Slightly off the topic of this thread, Owen states that MacKenzie only got the Cypress Point job because Seth Raynor died. Is this true?

Jon, pretty much. Raynor had been hired and had drawn plans for the course, but no one has seen these plans. They are one of the holy grails of architecture if you will, because it has been known that the drawings exist (or did), but they have never turned up. Bahto can better inform you in regards to the drawings and Raynor's involvement.

[Gary Slatter]

A few months back I had mentioned some info I had read that suggested that Ross had been in the running for the job at ANGC based on what I read in Fay's book. Brad and others had mentioned that there was not any evidence to support that and I believe them. Having said that, I just finished reading Lee Pace's "The Spirit of Pinehurst" and he mentions Charles Price and he (Price) says that Ross and Jones had an agreement to do the course. But when Jones visited CP and Pasa., he decided to go with Mack. instead. He goes on to say this angered Ross and set side all work to concentrate on his final plans for No.2.

This is not to suggest that Brad and others that responded are wrong, I'm just inquiring if anyone knows where Price could've come up with this info??

A few years ago Laurie Price (Charles' wife) was teaching tennis at Pinehurst and she told me she had a trunk full of correspondence between Price and Clifford Roberts.  I don't have any idea if she or the trunk are still there but it sounds like a good book to me!

[David Stamm]

A few months back I had mentioned some info I had read that suggested that Ross had been in the running for the job at ANGC based on what I read in Fay's book. Brad and others had mentioned that there was not any evidence to support that and I believe them. Having said that, I just finished reading Lee Pace's "The Spirit of Pinehurst" and he mentions Charles Price and he (Price) says that Ross and Jones had an agreement to do the course. But when Jones visited CP and Pasa., he decided to go with Mack. instead. He goes on to say this angered Ross and set side all work to concentrate on his final plans for No.2.

This is not to suggest that Brad and others that responded are wrong, I'm just inquiring if anyone knows where Price could've come up with this info??

A few years ago Laurie Price (Charles' wife) was teaching tennis at Pinehurst and she told me she had a trunk full of correspondence between Price and Clifford Roberts.  I don't have any idea if she or the trunk are still there but it sounds like a good book to me!

Wow!! Someone needs to get hold of that correspondence! Great info Gary!