Patrick:
That might be true for some people - that's why I said none of the views there were particularly great, at least relative to some other places. But others would never tire of the views, shifting their angles, looking out to sea, along the beach, etc. In any case to say these views have ZERO role, that I'll never get - and in the end I don't think that's what you're saying. You just minimize the role of such extra-course views, whereas I might give them a bit greater weight.
But it comes down to this. I was doing a little light reading and came across this from Graves & Cornish's Classic Golf Hole Design, a wonderful book that describes classic golf holes and gives examples of them, both older and modern. Here are what the authors say at least tangentially on this subject:
When describing classics, we are not necessarily including all the spectacular holes that abound on the world's golf courses. Sometimes these holes (classics or otherwise) owe their fame, in part at least, to their striking surroundings, for example, the Devil's Cauldron at Banff Springs in the Canadian Rockies, designed by architect Stanley Thompson, or the 16th at Cypress Point on the Monterey Peninsula in California,[/b] designed by architect Alister Mackenzie. These holes are also indebted to their architects for capturing the grandeur in their compositions.[/b] On the other hand, many golf holes in less striking surroundings are also famous and owe their magic almost entirely to the talent of those who created them.
Page 195
That in a nutshell is the point I've been trying to make to you. It's not that scenic views are required, or are to be focused on, or anything like that. It's just that when they are available, the good designer maximizes them - as Thompson did at Banff Springs and Mackenzie did at Cypress Point. And I see no distinction between on-course and off-course, as Cornish and Whitten surely don't - proven by their use of the Banff Springs example, where the incredible views are surely the mountains behind the golf hole.
That's it, really. There's no huge emphasis on it, just an acknowledgment that when great views exist, they are part of the equation. When they don't exist, a hole still can be great for sure - it just won't have this added "bonus" so to speak.
Which I believe in the end you'd agree with, no? How much value we each give to this "bonus" might be where our differences lie - and in the end I don't think we're nearly that far apart on that aspect as our lengthy battles would imply.
TH