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Peter Pallotta

Are All Golfers Created Equal?
« on: February 10, 2007, 12:02:52 PM »
What level of golfer do you think most interfaces* with the intended architectural/design features?

On a well-designed 6500-6800 yd. course, what level of player will most interact and deal with the challenges/strategies/options of the architecture (of those players between, say, a scratch and a 25 handicap)?

Any thoughts, personal experiences?
Thanks

Peter
* a term I got from Patrick Mucci, and which I like so much I'll probably now use constantly, consistently, until I run it into the ground and it sickens even me
     

« Last Edit: February 10, 2007, 03:06:43 PM by Peter Pallotta »
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Eric Franzen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Are All Golfers Created Equal?
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2007, 12:15:55 PM »
I usually would like to think that the scratch player or plus handicap have to interact with the design more since they have a smaller margin for mistakes out there and cant afford to just go for it on the kind of course that you describe (150 yards shorter than Riviera from the back). But this is just something that I base on observations of these kind players and not from first hand experience by playing on that level... (so I am probably just full of s**t posting here). ;)
« Last Edit: February 10, 2007, 12:35:00 PM by Eric Franzen »
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Peter Pallotta

Re:Are All Golfers Created Equal?
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2007, 01:37:03 PM »
Eric - thanks. After your post I edited mine to say 6500-6800 yards, as I wanted to ask this question in the context of a golf course suited to a wide range of players.

Peter  
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Gary Slatter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Are All Golfers Created Equal?
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2007, 05:08:13 PM »
IMHO: Most 10 or under handicappers "interface" with the design, maybe 5% of the 10-18; none of the above.   This may be traced by finding out who uses pocket pro type publications (before or during play).
100% interface with the overall experience (vistas, locale, etc.)
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Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

Peter Pallotta

Re:Are All Golfers Created Equal?
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2007, 10:43:16 AM »
Gary, thanks, and nice line on tracking pocket pro use.

I'll defer to your experience on this, but then the question is "what is everybody else doing (including ME)"? Are we just enjoying the scenery?  

The precentage of players (really) playing to a 10 or less has got to be pretty small.

Peter
« Last Edit: February 11, 2007, 10:47:23 AM by Peter Pallotta »
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Jeff Goldman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Are All Golfers Created Equal?
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2007, 06:13:46 PM »
It seems that courses like Shoreacres, Chicago Golf (where the Walker Cup teams simply blew it past everything), Crystal Downs (according to Tom Doak) and others now play the way they were designed for people like me, a short hitter with a handicap somewhere around 12, rather than better players.  For instance, at Shoreacres, Shivas probably just blows it past the creek on 4, doesn't think about the "hotel" on 10 or the ravine on 15, etc. etc., where I am challenged by these elements.  If this is solely because of the distance people hit the ball these days, then possibly even long-hitting mediocre players may miss strategic elements of some great courses.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2007, 06:14:18 PM by Jeff Goldman »
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That was one hellacious beaver.

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Are All Golfers Created Equal?
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2007, 06:20:55 PM »
I believe Mr Orwell got it right.

"All Animals Are Equal, But Some Animals Are More Equal Than Others."

In Golf, as in Life. Oink, oink!

FBD.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Gary Slatter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Are All Golfers Created Equal?
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2007, 06:36:43 PM »
Quote from: Peter Pallotta on February 11, 2007, 10:43:16 AM
Gary, thanks, and nice line on tracking pocket pro use.

I'll defer to your experience on this, but then the question is "what is everybody else doing (including ME)"? Are we just enjoying the scenery?  

The precentage of players (really) playing to a 10 or less has got to be pretty small.

Peter
Peter, I was thinking about this thread this morning as I watched the first two hours of golfers tee off on our Lucayan Course.  None looked at their scorecard or Player's Book, they basically "kibutzed" with their buddies and whacked it, hoping they would have a second shot.  Most missed the fairway, none asked the starter where to aim or how far to the bunkers or anything relevant.  AND MOST IMPORTANTLY they all seemed to be having fun and quite a few signed up to replay after completing their first 18 holes.
I did not see a 10 or better handicapper in the first 60 players today, maybe they don't go on vacation.
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Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

Peter Pallotta

Re:Are All Golfers Created Equal?
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2007, 07:40:26 PM »
Jeff - thanks; I was interested in those kind of experiences. I find that to be the case too, but only on some courses and not others. I'm trying to figure out a pattern.

Martin - I've noticed you're quite the wordsmith, but if I remember rightly my Orwell the pigs were nefarious and unprincipled schemers, backstabbing double-dealers from the first, and rotten to their cores. I wonder how they'd interface with the architecture. Any guesses? ;D

Gary - thanks; you seem to paint, as they say, an accurate picture.

Peter    
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