News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


TEPaul

Re:The Course Beautiful Movement
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2007, 11:17:46 AM »
"But more than simply considering the past, how about we look at today, where courses such as Sand Hills, Pacific Dunes, Ballyneal, etc., are again trying to mimic the naturalism of the original linkslands.  The designers of the Golden Age were likely not jumping on board any "Classical" or "Neo-Classical" bandwagon (in the sense of a revival of traditions and theory that may be thousands of years old)."

Steve:

Absolutely! I think that anything or any subject that we discuss about golf architecture in the past should have relevence in some way to what we are doing today or may in the future. To me, that's the ultimate point of it all.  

"However, what if we consider them (Thomas, Tillinghast, Ross, Macdonald, etc.) the Greeks and Romans of this profession, wouldn't it be today's designers who are the neo-classicists?  That is, it is today's designers who are part of a Course Beautiful Movement, which bears at least some resemblance to it's urban design counterpart?"

That's a good way of looking at this. There's no question there is a dedicated revival now of the Golden Age style, philosophy and perhaps even playability in both some new construction today and certainly in the ever increasing interest in course restorations. And in that case I guess you could call what they did back then in the Golden Age as "classic" today simply because it was over 8-10 decades ago and if some architects are dedicatedly copying that architecture in actuality or philosophically they could be called Neo-classists today.

I'm just not sure how relevent the actual "City Beautiful" movement was to golf course architecture because it had to do with a pretty different style and different disciplines and purposes---and one that couldn't exactly be termed "natural".

On the other hand, I do see some connection between the philosophy of Frederick Law Olmsted (the father not the son) to some of the things that golf and golf architecture were trying to do later. Interestingly, apparently Olmsted (the father) was not much of a fan of the direction of the over-all "City Beautiful" movement.

What the guys who are reviving Golden Age models today are into doesn't exactly seem to be in the vein of the "City Beautiful" style either which emanted from the Beaux Art style and school that was fairly Greek and Roman in origin which was pretty formal----and sort of the opposite of what I would call "natural" in golf course architecture and what some of the Golden Agers were after in a "natural' application.  

"Ultimately, I do believe that there is more than just circumstantial evidence to support the relationship between golf and City Beautiful, but maybe there is also room to just explore the concept in a more figurative sense first."

A more figurative sense is the way it seems to me at this point, if even that.  
« Last Edit: February 07, 2007, 11:26:25 AM by TEPaul »

Steve Burrows

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Course Beautiful Movement
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2007, 05:05:43 PM »
TEPaul,

Your view of the City Beautiful Movement, though popularly held, is only one aspect of its ideology, and, if I may also say, you seem to underestimate the contribution of Olmsted.

First, while it is true that the Beaux-Arts style of architecture was widely used, this neo-classical motif, which was underscored by it's formality and grandeur, was only part of the whole.  More than this, proponents of City Beautiful tried desperately to create a functional, liveable world, while at the same time imitating the beauty of the natural world.  The winding paths and boulevards of a George Kessler park system shows this clearly.  

Olmsted, of course, is the de facto father of this notion, though even he was not averse to formality in the landscape where it suited his purposes.  So, while it is no secret that Olmsted disagreed with where the end product of the City Beautiful Movement, his contributions (the positive influence of natural scenery on humans) are visible, and important.

City Beautiful, then, is not intrinsically concerned with formality, but, quite simply, with beauty.  Formality was simply an oft-used tool.

Golf courses, similarly, are concerned with functionality and with beauty.  Tillinghast wrote, “It seems to me that he, who plans any hole for golf, should have two aims: first, to produce something which will provide a true test of the game, and then consider every conceivable way to make it as beautiful as possible.”   Truly, golf course design and City Beautiful are, at their core, quite alike.
...to admit my mistakes most frankly, or to say simply what I believe to be necessary for the defense of what I have written, without introducing the explanation of any new matter so as to avoid engaging myself in endless discussion from one topic to another.     
               -Rene Descartes

TEPaul

Re:The Course Beautiful Movement
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2007, 11:53:33 AM »
Steve:

If the connection you're trying to make between say the "City Beautiful" movement (Beaux Arts) and Tillinghast's remarks about "Course Beautiful" is just in the context of "beauty" that seems a bit too general a connection to me.

About a year ago Tom MacWood was contending on here that the Arts and Crafts movement influenced practically every art form in the world because it was a global "philosophy", therefore it follows that it was the primary influence on the Golden Age of golf course architecture.

To me to make a point like that is way too general if not just specious.  

Steve Burrows

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Course Beautiful Movement
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2007, 04:42:15 PM »
TEPaul,

More than just in the context of beautification, I'm trying to say that golf course design and City Beautiful follow similar functional ideologies.  Both endeavor to provide adequate, if not above average, "infrastructure" (in the case of golf courses, I am referring to routing and the shot values, which make it a challenging/enjoyable test of golf), while also finding every way to make the outdoor experience "natural" and, therefore, beautiful.  Doak's "The Anatomy of a Golf Course" seems to agree, saying "The greatest courses do not simply fall back on the natural beauty of the property, but are designed to enhance the beauty of the property by directing the golfer around the property to see it in all its aspects, and by adding features that blend into the landscape while helping to focus the golfer’s view.  In each aspect of golf course design, from routing the course to hazard placement to the construction of bunkers and greens, there is opportunity for the sympathetic golf architect to add to the beauty of the landscape.”  Like City Beautiful, Doak believes that one must create a functional landscape, to be sure, but do so with an eye for beauty that will engage participants and improve the entire experience.    

Further, I would sugggest that the formal education of early course designers such as Tillinghast and Macdonald allowed them intellectual access to current and ongoing theories of urban design, like City Beautiful.  I think it folly to believe that it was merely coincidence that the work of these golf course designers (along with others) was contemporaneous with such a shift in design; along with intellectual access, they also had physical access to the tangible urban designs, as well as the men who were designing them.  Modern designers often have similarly diverse liberal arts education that make this sort of knowledge available to them as well.

So, no, this is not simply about beauty.
...to admit my mistakes most frankly, or to say simply what I believe to be necessary for the defense of what I have written, without introducing the explanation of any new matter so as to avoid engaging myself in endless discussion from one topic to another.     
               -Rene Descartes

TEPaul

Re:The Course Beautiful Movement
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2007, 06:51:10 PM »
Steve:

The City Beautiful movement certainly could have been some inspiration for some of those architects like Tillinghast who used the term "Course Beautiful, I just don't see much evidence of it or much of a connection.

On the other hand, some of the architects of that time did write about landscape architects who had preceded them as being similar to what they as golf architects were trying to do in the context of "art". Macdonald mentioned and quoted landscape architects Humphrey Repton and Prince Puckler.

And Macdonald did mention the impact of the Columbian Exposition in Chicago in 1893 which certainly was a Beaux Arts building architectural expression. Others have said that 1893 Chicago Columbian Exposition may've even contributed to the defining of the modern American self identity or even ethos.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2007, 06:55:34 PM by TEPaul »

TEPaul

Re:The Course Beautiful Movement
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2007, 07:06:04 PM »
Steve:

Maybe I'm a little gun-shy on the influence of "movements" on golf course architecture.

Here's why:

A couple of years ago Wayne and I went out Glen View G.C. in Chicago (Flynn) to talk to the club about Flynn.

As I was standing around the first morning a busload of fans of a well-known early 20th century Chicago landscape architect showed up to look at the course as apparently it had been massively landscaped by him decades ago.

So I went out there on the course with about fifty of them and we all got into a conversation about the connections between LA and GCA which for some reason had not occured to them despite being on a golf course.

Anyway, that was that but in the clubhouse following that one of the LA architecture fans told me I must look into the "Cemetery" movement because that too undoubtedly must have had a major impact on golf course architecture.

Don't laugh, there actually was a "Cemetery" Movement.

« Last Edit: February 08, 2007, 07:29:40 PM by TEPaul »

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back