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Steve_ Shaffer

Gene Bates, GCA
« on: February 06, 2007, 08:43:30 AM »
Here is a good story by Craig Dolch in today's Palm Beach Post profiling Gene Bates, the architect who did the renovation of The Old Course at Broken Sound in Boca Raton, FL mentioned in my thread below. He's had an interesting career including 5 years at Nicklaus Design:

http://tinyurl.com/2nhqgk


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Joel_Stewart

Re: Gene Bates, GCA
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2009, 04:35:27 PM »
I don't know much about Gene Bates but played at Fort Ord yesterday in Monterey. 

Considering the number of architects who have not built courses in this area such as Coore & Crenshaw, Doak, Hanse, Devries, Kyle Phillips etc. and the old guys like Ross and Tillinghast who never had the opportunity, Gene Bates must get down on his knees and thank someone for allowing him to build 36 holes. 

Has anyone else played it?
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Tom Huckaby

Re: Gene Bates, GCA
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2009, 05:05:41 PM »
Quote from: Joel_Stewart on April 23, 2009, 04:35:27 PM
I don't know much about Gene Bates but played at Fort Ord yesterday in Monterey. 

Considering the number of architects who have not built courses in this area such as Coore & Crenshaw, Doak, Hanse, Devries, Kyle Phillips etc. and the old guys like Ross and Tillinghast who never had the opportunity, Gene Bates must get down on his knees and thank someone for allowing him to build 36 holes. 

Has anyone else played it?

I've played the revamped Bayonet.  I made not so flattering comments in here after that.  There's an old thread about it.

I have yet to play the revamped Blackhorse but as you know you see enough of that while playing Bayonet...and I saw enough such that I am not rushing down there to play it.

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David Stamm

Re: Gene Bates, GCA
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2009, 05:28:10 PM »
Quote from: Tom Huckaby on April 23, 2009, 05:05:41 PM
Quote from: Joel_Stewart on April 23, 2009, 04:35:27 PM
I don't know much about Gene Bates but played at Fort Ord yesterday in Monterey. 

Considering the number of architects who have not built courses in this area such as Coore & Crenshaw, Doak, Hanse, Devries, Kyle Phillips etc. and the old guys like Ross and Tillinghast who never had the opportunity, Gene Bates must get down on his knees and thank someone for allowing him to build 36 holes. 

Has anyone else played it?

I've played the revamped Bayonet.  I made not so flattering comments in here after that.  There's an old thread about it.

I have yet to play the revamped Blackhorse but as you know you see enough of that while playing Bayonet...and I saw enough such that I am not rushing down there to play it.



Stop the presses! There is a course that Hucks doesn't like! What is the world coming to! ;) ;D


Seriously, Tom, how would you compare what Bates did at Fort Ord vs San Juan Oaks?
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Tom Huckaby

Re: Gene Bates, GCA
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2009, 05:34:17 PM »
David: well of course there is another.... THE RANCH at Silver Creek, San Jose... been discussed on here a few times before.

But Lynn had it right the other day when he said something to the effect of "you don't count, you like everything."  So my gushing thread on Rustic ought to be taken with an ocean of salt.

 ;D ;D

The main thing is this though:  it is true that if I state negatives about the course, you can fairly bank that it must suck.

But to answer your question... it's not my bag what any architect did, as I never know who did what.  So removing Bates from the equation, I can answer like this:

I really like San Juan Oaks - it's pretty, there are many fun holes to be played, conditions are usually pretty damn good, and one can get good deals.

Bayonet has great conditions, but is a painful boring slog, every bit of uniqueness that was once there has been butchered out of it, and it's horribly overpriced.

Attribute whatever parts of that to Bates you feel are correctly attributable.

TH
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David Stamm

Re: Gene Bates, GCA
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2009, 05:43:40 PM »
Quote from: Tom Huckaby on April 23, 2009, 05:34:17 PM


 
 
Attribute whatever parts of that to Bates you feel are correctly attributable.

TH


It's not important about Bates, I just wanted to know what you think of the courses, and you answered it. I haven't played SJO, but from what I can tell, it looks to be the better option for sure.
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Bob Jenkins

Re: Gene Bates, GCA
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2009, 05:48:24 PM »
Steve,

Gene Bates designed "The Rise" golf course which opened last summer near Vernon, B.C. It is described as a Fred Couples "Signature Course" but from what I have seen, Fred had little in any involvement in the design and a lot of involvement in the promotion of the course and development.  The course is situated on property high above Lake Okanagan and has some spectacular views and is part of a housing development that has had considerable difficulties.

The website is   www.therise.ca

I have not played the course although I did walk the area just as construction was beginning. The reports I have heard from several who are knowledgeable are unanimously negative. Several goofy holes, at least 7 blind shots, bunkers that appear to have no strategic purpose, and more. I am not in a hurry to see it but will pay a visit this summer just to see for myself.

As far as I know, this is his only design in this part of the world.

Bob Jenkins
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Kalen Braley

Re: Gene Bates, GCA
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2009, 05:51:37 PM »
I've played quite a few of his courses and think he does decent work compared to much of the other bland stuff that is out there.

His best effort I've played is Circling Raven near Spokane. He's also done a few fun ones here in the SLC area, including a faux dunes courses in Utah County that would have been pretty darn good if they hadn't ruined it with all the housing.
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Tim Gavrich

Re: Gene Bates, GCA
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2009, 06:45:27 PM »
His and Fred Couples' names are on a course on the Grand Strand called Carolina National; it's on the NC side of things down there.  I've never played it, but the pictures I've seen of it make it look pretty scenic; anyone have experience with it?

Thanks.

--Tim
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A.G._Crockett

Re: Gene Bates, GCA
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2009, 08:54:41 PM »
Quote from: Tim Gavrich on April 23, 2009, 06:45:27 PM
His and Fred Couples' names are on a course on the Grand Strand called Carolina National; it's on the NC side of things down there.  I've never played it, but the pictures I've seen of it make it look pretty scenic; anyone have experience with it?

Thanks.

--Tim

Tim,
I've played Carolina National several times, and I assure you that the picture(s) that you have seen, which probably featured marshes around and behind the green, are NOT typical of the course.  That is a long and very good par 3, and it is pretty much the only hole with that sort of a view.

However, it is an enjoyable golf course.  It is not especially memorable, and I consider it to be overpriced for how far it is from MB proper and the quality of the course, but it is certainly not a bad golf course by any stretch.

Gene Bates has several other courses in the MB area.  They tend to be older and low-end in terms of price point as other, better-known GCA's have worked in the area.  Solid, straightforward, enjoyable golf, but none that would make a must-see list in that area.
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Kalen Braley

Re: Gene Bates, GCA
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2009, 09:01:50 PM »
He's built 6 here in the SLC area including a Co-Design with Johnny Miller on one of them.
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McCloskey

Re: Gene Bates, GCA
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2009, 10:39:05 AM »
I was told that GB was not a design associate while working for Nicklaus., but was more in business development.   His design career started after he left Nicklaus.
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