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RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Most content golf club membership?
« on: September 25, 2002, 08:54:21 AM »
It occurs to me while pondering Mayday's recent thread and Pat Mucci's dilemma about discord among the membership over remodelling/restoration, that we selfdom hear from content members of these private clubs.  

1.  Is it the nature of the Golf Club Atlas that it plays the role of a sounding board for dissident members facing design changes?

2.  Do some of our contributors participate here because they hope they will likely find kindred spirits or sympathizers to their own cause?  Then when some contrary points of view about their particular issues surfaces, all heck breaks loose in debate over what's right or wrong about changes or lack of changes.  :-/

3.  Which golf clubs do you think exemplify organizations that have the most content membership and best communication between leadership and members?  And, has that resulted in the best possible golf course and design integrity through preservation?  Or, has that resulted in the best change process?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

TEPaul

Re: Most content golf club membership?
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2002, 09:08:08 AM »
Now that--"the most content golf club membership?" is a very interesting question indeed.

I have no real idea what golf course may have the most content membership except to say that certainly Pine Valley would have to be right up there as it is in almost everything else in golf and architecture!

We talk about architecture on here all the time but very rarely about the contentedness and basic "morale" of any club's membership!

It's no secret at all to tell this group that good architecture and its preservation is extremely important but not far behind that is the contentedness and morale of any golf club. That's something I'm afraid is less well understood on here than most realize!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

TEPaul

Re: Most content golf club membership?
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2002, 09:09:53 AM »
RJ:

Do you think it's possible that "Discord" may be Pat's middle name?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most content golf club membership?
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2002, 09:14:07 AM »
Interesting topic, Dick.  As a member of a "private"
Natl. Golf Properties/American Golf, I hear near constant complaints with an occasional benign compliment mixed in.  Perharps there needs to be a distinction between member owned clubs and the private clubs that are owned by individuals or corporations.

Of the latter variety, I recently played the Kiawah Island Club courses, River and Cassique, and did not hear a single negative comment from members, staff, and others in the area not affiliated with the club.  Here the managing partner, Pat McKinney, seems to be the key.  He is a good golfer, a traditionalist at heart, and smart enough to break away from the cookie-cutter mold of high density golf development.  I suspect that his financial situation is enviable, and I would give my right arm to live and play on his properties.

Of the equity clubs, Colonial CC in Fort Worth seems to have a fairly satisfied membership (with a 10+ year waiting list), though reportedly certain factions exist, and they don't always get along.  For the most part, the many renovations over the years have been positive, though the club's insistence on growing bent grass on a heavily wooded river-bottom property is suspect.  The site along with the small greens and huge membership makes conditioning an issue, though, reportedly, they have one of the highest maintenance budgets anywhere.  The course is extremely busy, making outside play difficult, but seldom does it take more than four hours to play the course.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most content golf club membership?
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2002, 09:19:54 AM »
Tom, it is a question that I do regret I have no experience with or ability to answer.  Perhaps the question is overly difficult to get a knowledgeable answer from hardly anyone, because it implies that someone would have to really get around to these various clubs and further to actually know the politics of those memberships.  Perhaps the archies that regularly do remodelling and restoration would be the best ones to answer this based on their impressions of having meetings at various clubs considering restorations/remodellings.  

I can only get a fleeting impression from the small number of private clubs I have had the privilege to be invited to.  Crystal Downs, Yeaman's Hall, and Sand Hills come to mind as golf club memberships that have what appears on the surface as steady satisfied membership, and which undertake preservation or change with excellent results.  Yet, that may be far from the case, since I have no idea if there was actually any member discord within the inner circles.  I suspect that of the three I have named, they have very different organizations and membership communication and decision making processes.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

TEPaul

Re: Most content golf club membership?
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2002, 09:33:44 AM »
RJ:

I can tell you right now that the most inherently "contented" memberships were and probably to a large extent still are logically those clubs that were formed by and populated (to a large extent) by "friends" and then an extension of people that might be best described as "acquaintenances" or even "like minded people"!

The clubs that struggle most in this way are those that just solicit membership numbers any way they can get them! Certainly the "ability to pay" is no panacea and might actually be a hinderance.

Clubs that are lucky enough to have longterm "benevolent dictators" or "Czars" are also the ones that have historically functioned best and most efficiently. I think, as ironic as it may seem those types of "czar" run clubs might actually be some of the most "contented" memberships too!

I think that too is very logical! The times that clubs have most friction and discontentedness is when people get into competing for power of any kind somehow. The "longterm benevolent dictator" method sort of takes care of that inherent problem right off the bat and keeps it solved!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:09 PM by -1 »

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most content golf club membership?
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2002, 10:09:49 AM »
Keeping it simple and honest would allow me to nominate a few local clubs for this title. I agree that much of what Tom, RJ and Lou have already said. The issue of "friends" or a small "tight" group will always set the standard for relative peace and content. I'll go a step farther and say that while a benevolent czar or dictator certainly does often provide a happy and content experience or rule, it can be a result of intimidation and fear......not emotions normally equated with a content peace. Most of the times this is not the case(ala PVGC), but places like ANGC still do embrace this practice.

From experience, I've seen a very happy ;D membership at Hamilton Farm & Sand Hills (b. czars) and hear that all the members at Friar's Head (again, another b. czar) are VERY HAPPY :D

A good friend of mine who is a member at Quaker Ridge once remarked;

" The operation of a First Class private golf club and Democracy do not mix well."
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Tim Weiman

Re: Most content golf club membership?
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2002, 10:57:16 AM »
Dick Daley:

To the best of my knowledge my fellow members at Sand Ridge are pretty content. Most are members at a few other Cleveland area clubs and use Sand Rdige to get away from the country club scene. The course gets very little play, so usually you can just walk out and play any time. That's a great if you are a member.

From an architecture/maintenance point of, I'm guessing some members might be unhappy about the blue grass rough. It can make for a long tough day if you don't hit fairways with your tee shots. On Saturday I took a guest out, a long time friend who plays to an 8 handicap at his club. He shot 95 and got real frustrated.

I would also nominate Ballybunion as having a membership that is quite happy. The club is soon to be completely retiring all debt and will probably cut back outside play a bit more. This will give the members more time to just walk out and play whenver they want.

Beyond that, Ballybunion, like many Irish clubs, has a very active series of tournaments with other clubs. This does a lot to build spirit within the club, bringing the young people close to middle age folks. On one occasion I got to represent Ballybunion and came away feeling that the Irish clubs have something generally missing in the US.

I can't leave this topic without mentioning Dooks. Interestingly, it seems the members are always tinkering with the course - all 6,000 yards of it. But, they also know that they have a real gem - one of the best places in the world to play golf. If Augusta National ever gets around to accepting a woman as member, I would nominate Dooks' Secretary Rose Cunningham. She has the perfect spirit to remind people that a golf club is supposed to be about playing golf not high powered business connections.
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Charles Roberts

Re: Most content golf club membership?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2002, 11:08:53 AM »
Without doubt, Augusta National.

I have yet to hear a member complain.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »