Riviera Photos

[James Bennett]

I've never been to LA so I readily admit to not knowing the course at all except in photographs.  I recognized pictures can be deceiving, but....here are my criticisms:

The fairway on the first hole looks terrible.  I imagine at one point there had to be a bit of flow to the contour lines.  Obviously it has shrunk a great deal today, but does it have to be a perfect rectangle?  

Wayne (and Adam and others)

we all know that fairway lines tend to shrink from original designs (if you have these original plans available) - even 17 at the old course has shurnk in recent years.

There is George Thomas's original drawing of Riviera #1 on page 96 of the Golden Age of Golf Design (Shackleford).  

The first fairway was certainly was not designed as a rectangle.  It has a right kink (opposite the first lh bunker) then a left kink at the tee shot point, then a right hand kink opposite the lk approach bunker.  Bu that is consistent with a strategic design , which seems to epitomise George Thomas from my readings.

James B

[Anthony_Nysse]

John,
  I've always wanted to see Riviera because of it's unique bunkering-the random tongues, shaggy than most tour stops, and just the incredible variety and uniquiness of Mr. Thomas work. I beleive the C&C reworked them prior to the 94 Sr Open, but I think that the current bunkers have no appeal and take away a really special aspect that Riviera used to have.

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[John Kavanaugh]

Tony,

I can appreciate that you don't like the clean edges but Fazio did more to improve the placement and structure of the bunkers than he did to "ruin" them.  

I'd love to hear the other myths about Riviera you have picked up by reading this site.  I was just as guilty until I had a chance to play the course in person and talk to an unbiased individual.  I honestly could not figure out why my host did not seem concerned with an exact tee time when we were going to play early Friday morning.  According to GCA myth Riviera is constantly backed up with hoards of members and guests.  We had a casual breakfast and teed it up at 8 am and never waited one shot with the exception of me waiting for 10 green to clear in preparation for my drive.  It is truly one of the finest places to be a member in the country.  

I am confident in saying that even in their current state that Riviera has one of the top ten bunker schemes in the country.  Even Fazio couldn't "ruin" the genius of Thomas on that property.

[rjsimper]

I do not disagree with anyone that the current bunkers do not resemble old photographs etc, but there is certainly much more to see, study, enjoy, than just the bunkers, and on my list of reasons why I'd wanted to play it for so long, I would say the bunkers were somewhere near the bottom half of the top 10.

Maybe that's just because I've always viewed GCA from a perspective of functionality moreso than aesthetics.  Sure, I am a slave to the ocean and I admit it, but beyond that, I would take 10 at Riviera every day of the week, whether the bunkers were shaggy or whether they were cut with a Paul Bunyan sized cookie-cutter, so long as it plays well.

In a perfect world, yes things would look perfect and play even better...but nobody has shown me any reason to believe that if the bunker on 4 at Riviera was shaggy versus what we see now, that it would be any less of a great hole to play golf on.  It just might not make as nice of a "Miss June" on a calendar.

Comments like the shrinking of the 1st fairway and the lack of proper strategy for the 8th hole are of far greater concern to me than what the edges of the bunkers look like.

[John Kavanaugh]

Ryan,

How did you play number 7.

[rjsimper]

Poorly -

3 wood that scurried through the fairway into the bunker then caught a PW heavy.  Wedged from about 40 yards to 15 feet.  2 putts for a bogey.

[Steve Okula]

God, I hate too many trees on a golf course, and the only thing worse than too many trees are too many eucalyptus trees. It's like having 100 foot piles of garbage lining every hole. Put some koalas in them and they might be cute, but it is not class golf.

[John Kavanaugh]

I think that is the very bunker that Tommy loves to make fun of.  It is so sad that the genius of the placement is lost on perceived asthetics.

[John Kavanaugh]

God, I hate too many trees on a golf course, and the only thing worse than too many trees are too many eucalyptus trees. It's like having 100 foot piles of garbage lining every hole. Put some koalas in them and they might be cute, but it is not class golf.

The trees only provide more options and or require a bit of shotmaking.  There is not a tree problem at Riviera.  I hadn't even considered that myth.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Whoa-Hold your mule! I'm not being impressed upon by the GCA crowd in regards to the bunkering. I know that there is alot more to Riviera than the bunkers. What I'm saying is that it was so nice to see something different on tour and something different in general. So many tour stops have template style bunkering. The bunkering at Kapalua used to be really neat until the tour came along a put clean edges on them. I'm not saying that all courses have to have clean edges, but it just fit at Kapalua, as it does at Riviera. The bunkering at Medinah last year was maintained as it should, I'm sure that Oakmont will have some ruggedness to it-I just don't think that it fits the golf course, that's all. Riviera has always looked a little rough on TV, more or less because of the time of year the Nissian is played, everything had a blended look. Would TPC look right with shaggy bunkering? No, because that course is very high manicured and green. Same with Bay Hill, and Quail Hollow, Harbor Town, Augusta, Valhalla, Oakland Hills.

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[John Kavanaugh]

Tony,

The Fazio bunkers are more like the Crenshaw bunkers than the Crenshaw bunkers are like the Thomas Bunkers.  I wish you had the Shackelford book to see this.  But then even Shackelford seems to ignore this.

[Adam Clayman]

JB. Doesn't Bell get the credit for the lacy edging seen in the old photos?
Plus...
 It is much more than the aesthetics. They are incongruent with the remainder (until Marzoff gets his hands on all of them )

The problem I have with the one ones on 7 and 16 are that they are built up against the natural drainage flow of the property. Thomas was meticulous in NOT doing that.

James B.- The first hole runs perpendicular to the line of the drainage canal that the Army corp of engineers constructed before the SWWOG episode and after the course was built. I suspect that's why things were so dramatically altered.

[James Bennett]

Thanks Adam, I'll keep that in mind about the drainage canal.

James B

[Sébastien Dhaussy]

The fairway on the first hole looks terrible.  I imagine at one point there had to be a bit of flow to the contour lines.  Obviously it has shrunk a great deal today, but does it have to be a perfect rectangle?  

Wayne,

I found this view of the 1st tee (preparation of the US Open) in the June 1948 edition of the USGA Journal. The fairway was more wide but has yet a rectangular look. From this black and white photo, I have nevertheless some difficulties to know the status of the light patches on the left of the fairway.  
 

[Tom Birkert]

I was fortunate enough to play Riviera last year, and it was nice to be able to take a caddy.

My hosts were very good players, and we played from the tips, including the new back tee on 12 (I think, jet lag was kicking in!). My friend is a very fine golfer (+3) and busted a drive and busted a 2 iron only to come up short and in a bunker. It's one hell of a tough course off the tips!

I loved the first par 3, only time I've had to hit a driver at a par 3 (though hopefully not the last!).

It really is compact, the 10th green is amazingly narrow and sloping and despite the warnings to the contrary I was determined to hit a chip and run with my 8 iron from where my drive finished. I got lucky and hit it close enough fro a gimmie.

The grass is very wiry, you really need to master the flop shot if you play there regularly, which I don't particularly like as I think it takes some of the invention away.

It's a lovely course, and I intend to play it again this Summer when I have my trip organised.

Thank you for sharing the photos, they have brought back some lovely memories!

[Bob_Huntley]

Tom,

Tell me about the new back tee on 12.

The furthest back tee when I was a Member  was put in by Mack Hunter when he was the pro there. I had put in a pathway on my property and a gate so I could walk to the club or play a few holes in the evening. If you look up from the tee I am talking about, you will now see a monstrous cantilevered tennis court. Is the tee now further back?


Bob

[Michael Robin]

Bob, I'm not Tom, but here's the info you seek. There are 2 new tees back in the chute of trees. The first is at the opening approximately at the same place that the old Mac Hunter "tiger tee"(named before Eldrick had reached the awareness of the golfing world) was at in your day. The plate reads 460 yds. There is an even further back tee which plates at 480 yds. The tennis court of which you speak splits those two tees.

[Michael Robin]

Another note on that great pic of 1, notice the old polo fields in the top left of the photo, and the structure peeking out to the left of the fairway is the old stable, which is now where the cart barn is.

[Tom Birkert]

Bob,

Michael has beat me to it and described it perfectly. It really is a trek back to them and a very intimidating tee shot, with anything left obviously dead.

We played it from the 480 tee, a tee I believe added specifically with next year's US Open in mind.

[Michael Robin]

Sorry Tom, an itchy trigger finger. You're right about the the 480 tee for the failed bid for the US Open. Still can't believe they would actually pick Torrey as a site.

[James Bennett]

Another note on that great pic of 1, notice the old polo fields in the top left of the photo, and the structure peeking out to the left of the fairway is the old stable, which is now where the cart barn is.

Michael

is that the Polo Fields of 1932 LA Olympics 'fame' - the ones where the kikuyu was first planted?  What is there now - still Polo Fields?

James B

[Michael Robin]

James, as you will soon see, there are now seriously overpriced single story homes where the polo fields once were as well as the Riviera Tennis Club on the property that wasn't sold off. And yes to the Olympic and Kikuyu question.

[Don_Mahaffey]

My brother, Ron, was the Assistant Supt. at Riviera from ’90 – 92 (I think I got the years right) and since I lived not far away I worked him in every possible way to play as much as I could at his course. I was lucky enough to probably play Riviera a dozen times in those years. This all prior to the redo of the greens and all the junk that went with that, but I do believe that C & C were already on the site working some tees over and studying the greens as the prevailing thought was they needed to be redone.
Without a doubt what I remember most was the menacing bunkers with those foot thick kikuyu lips that looked just awesome. I specifically remember that bunker fronting the 6th and how much deeper and meaner looking it was in person compared to what I’d seen on TV.
You can put me in Tony’s camp; I think the bunkers are crap. They're sterile, and just too damn clean. You should have seen them 15 years ago.  

[David Panzarasa]

I played here for 5 times in the past 6 months,,,and the members were all telling me, they are having issues on the first hole because of all the different types of grass that are there. They cant seem to fix it. There are roughly 2-3 different types of grass on the fairways and 2-3 different in the rough. This was with 5 different groups as well, so it seemed they knew what they were talking about.
 something I noticed that was changed I think is the 17th par 5? They really screwed that bunker up next to the green on the front right side. It was a good 10 yards off the green before they moved it to sit right on the green. Takes a lot of play away now, and what it was meant for.
 I was kind of impressed with the green conditions there, I thought there were going to be really bouncy and off from what the members were telling me, but they were fine. Not as good as LACC or Wilshire, but they were fine.

[rjsimper]

David,
I had the same impression of the greens - around this time of year, we always hear over and over about the greens and how bumpy they are.  I found them to be far better than stories would have led us all to believe.