Lay of the land greens

[TEPaul]

Ken:

Merion's 5th would sure would.

[Tom_Doak]

Interesting to me that on another thread there is a lot of discussion of Bill Coore trying to leave his golf course sites almost completely alone, yet he rarely ever lays a green just on the ground, except at Sand Hills and on a couple of the dunes holes at Friars Head.  He is always using a bit of fill to build them, whereas I am trying to keep them at ground level on a bit of a natural high spot.

[BCrosby]

Cuscowilla #13 certainly qualifies.

[wsmorrison]

Sean,

Hey, that's me, carrying the green bag, in the first picture you posted at The Addington.  I still need to lose weight  

Mike,

That was me, walking up to the group in front of me and apologizing for driving the green while they were still putting    Rick Holland and Jeff Silverman were pissed!

Manufacturers has several excellent greens that would qualify as lay of the land greens.  I'll dig up some photos.  Maybe Scott May has some good ones, mine aren't so good.

[archie_struthers]

 

Mayday

Twisted Dune has eight, lemme see, 1,2,5,6,9,11,12,15,18
 no nine non-raised fronts. Interesting in that I like all these holes. Forget what Cirba says , I'll have to take him out to 18  one day from 200-215 yards and finally convince him I am on point. (hole too long for same) LOL

Mayday funny but my least favorite holes are raised , particularly 17, which just does't do it for me. Hence the question

TEP, I just love the look of that bunker at Myopia, and know that I have seen a few similar in my travels, just blanking out for the moment. If itisn't close right up against the green , wouldn't it be awesome if a shot hit short of the green ( or putt would slide back into it, et tu devils orifice.

That is one change at PVGC I for one would love to see reversed.

[James Bennett]

Sean Arble

I think the Buda Cup in Leeds will enjoy a number of 'lay of the land' greens.

I must get round to posting some Moortown photos.

James B

[Jeff Doerr]

One challenge with these greens is showing their beauty.  The slope is easier to capture, but the subtle movements within the slope are hard to get in a photograph.

Does anyone have images from Rustic of 10 and other similar greens?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Interesting to me that on another thread there is a lot of discussion of Bill Coore trying to leave his golf course sites almost completely alone, yet he rarely ever lays a green just on the ground, except at Sand Hills and on a couple of the dunes holes at Friars Head.  He is always using a bit of fill to build them, whereas I am trying to keep them at ground level on a bit of a natural high spot.

Tom,
I've always felt that Bill & The Boys built puting surfaces the way Tillie built many of his, sort of tying in from the front and building it up in the back.

You can get behind the greens and it's like looking at the foundation, almost like being backstage at a theater looking behind the sets and seeing how they are made.

Jeff Doerr, Great post and if you really want to see some lay of the land greens drive straight out to Astoria G & CC.

I always like the 5th at Eastmoreland, sort of bends around if I remember right and it fits the property nicely. However my favorite green complexes out there are probably the 3rd and the 4th. At one time it looked like it had some pretty interesting bunkers around it #3.

[TEPaul]

Not that it's much of a concern but golfers do tend to "walk behind the stage set" a whole lot  more than theater audiences do! If it is even remotely necessary to "hold the illusion" in golf architecture as it is in the theater that might need to be considered.

[Tom_Doak]

Tommy:

Actually I have noticed Bill's greens being more the other way around.  A lot of times he will locate the green in a bit of a hollow (which might create a drainage problem if he wasn't using fill).  But then he uses a foot of fill to tie in the back and sides and it is only a little slope at the front that gives it away.

I guess in hindsight he does do what you say, too, but I'm more accustomed to seeing that type of greens on older courses so it didn't really stand out to me.

[Jeff Doerr]

Tommy,

I've always wanted to play Astoria. I was going to play in a Monday Pro-Member event there a couple years back, but work got in the way.

#5 is the first Par 3.

On the front I believe most greens are original. #4 was redone a few years ago. #9 may have been redone.

#3 is one of my favorites. A dogleg 4 with a huge tree at the bend. There is a swale in front of the green that is hard up against an Ivy covered fence. Great contours in that green.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Jeff,
Yes, your right, #5 is the downhill par 3 and you'll have to forgive, it's been about 13 or 14 years since I last played Eastmoreland, but that's no excuse as I've played the course about 10 times! #6 is the par 5, correct?

Tom Paul,
All the world is a stage and of course we are the actors!

Arbs,
Soon, someday. Hopefully soon. My heathlands knowledge is severly lacking, and it's probably one of the more important schools which to study!

Tom Doak,
Something interesting I've seen is that when Billy Bell built courses with George Thomas, they also pushed-up and also lay of the land type, or they had many built into signifcant areas, like into a natural bowl (I'm thinking Bel Air and Riviera) they vaired a lot.  BUt looking at courses like Brookside, Virginia CC and others, when Bell had teamed up with Tillinghast, the green complexes changed somewhat, getting more of that Tillinghast perched-up/pushed-up in the back look to them.

What greens would one consider Tillinghast, Lay of the land greens?

[TEPaul]

"Tom Paul,
All the world is a stage and of course we are the actors!"

Then why from time immemorial have so many sat in the audience and only watched the actors on the stage in a stage set?

[Joe Hancock]

"Tom Paul,
All the world is a stage and of course we are the actors!"

Then why from time immemorial have so many sat in the audience and only watched the actors on the stage in a stage set?

TEPaul,

It makes for an unexciting performance without an audience.  

Joe

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I have to find it, but I do have an image taken somewhat later in the evening of the back of the green of Winged Foot East #18 which more or less shows what I'm talking about.

"Then why from time immemorial have so many sat in the audience and only watched the actors on the stage in a stage set?

This would probably be a question best answered by Albert Einstein, who through the help of quantum physics could span the distances between space and time.....Sort of like an envelope...