St Andrews Beach

[Danny Goss]

I heard recently that the place is now a public course.

I think thats disgraceful and feel sorry for members such as Mark who have paid their money in good faith.

Mark is there any (legal or other) comeback at all?

I mean what is your status now and do you have any rights at all? And I suppose this means no Clubhouse either.

This is such a shame but I suppose on the bright side for those of us who didnt commit we seemingly can just turn up and play one of the best tracks in the country

[Shane Gurnett]

Mark I don't know enough about the membership structure to have an opinion on what has happened. It does seem strange however that a club that was promoted heavily on the basis of having a high degree of exclusivity has now thrown its doors open to everyone for a game. I wouldn't be happy if it happened at my club.

[Chris Kane]

So now that its a "private members course with visitor access available 7 days a week subject to tee time availability", what benefit is there to being a member?

And with the 10-round passes, they seem to be encouraging regular play by non-members.

[Mark_F]

Danny,

I am sure their must be some legal redress, as the prospectus I signed only three years ago specifies a vastly different product to what is there now.

Whether GCPL have the money to pay out anyone who takes such action is another point entirely,as I doubt they have it.

As for the "or other". I am a big believer in extreme violence in situations such as these. I am working on my alibi at this moment.

We basically have no status now -you probably have as many rights as me, since the directors control the majority of shares, and can vote for whatever they wish.

They need to presell 8 apartments in the current release to get $3million in funding that can be used for either the Fingal course or a clubhouse. The directors' preference is for the Fingal course, but that depends on the timing of when (if) they achieve the presale figure - they have presold three, but I doubt they will achieve the other five this year.

There was no indication of where the funding for whatever wasn't constructed -Fingal or clubhouse - would come from.  It would probably have to be apartment sales,which means the second cab off the rank would be at least 3 years away, since, as Chris noted, there is no benefit to buying a share and being a member.

And they still have to find the readies for the practice facilities, maintainence facility, hotel and eco resort....

[Shane Gurnett]

Mark, would you expect the course set-up to change given the prospect of increased green fee play? Would it be for the better or for worse?

How do they expect to sell more memberships now that the "exclusiveness" of the club has been taken away? Will the clubhouse ever get started?

Seems a shame that it is headed this way. I wonder what to golfing neighbors down the road think of it all.

[Chris Kane]

Mark as the holder of a membership which doesn't attract annual subs, are there any ongoing liabilities for your share?  The prospectus I looked at today mentioned a $250 per annum bar levy, but are they enforcing that?

How many people bought memberships?

[Mark_F]

Chris,

There is only the $250 bar levy for shareholders, and you better believe they are enforcing it! I still have $200 or so left on mine for this year.

The number of shares that have been 'allocated' - a term I use because there are quite a number of shares that have been given as contra or very heavily discounted - changes from moment to moment with each person that you speak too.

The last figure I heard was 384.  The $20,000 renounceable shares issued last year account for a little over a hundred of that total, so there has been around 40, maybe 50 shares sold in the three years I have been a member.

However, there are only about 250, I think, playing members or people leasing a share.

Shane,

That's an interesting question.

Since allowing a limited number of non-member access from November 2005, I think some of the more difficult pin positions have been used far less often, although that is only an anecdotal observation.

Depending on the increased numbers, I can see the maintainance suffering a bit - there are already far too many unfilled divot marks for my liking, and perhaps some of the back tees will be closed more often so they don't get too chopped up.

Maybe it will change for the better if they rip out a lot of the overplanting that has been done.

I would be interested to know if the directors honestly believe this will result in more sales.  They, in their foolishness, probably think it will enhance sales, although as it has been noted, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to buy a $50,000 share.

If you wanted to buy a share,you would go online and get an ABN, then buy a one person corporate share for the Fingal, since, if that ever does get built, it will hardly be noticeably worse than Gunnamatta and may even be better,although I don't think that will be the case. Meanwhile, you get Gunnamatta accessf or $1100 a year. They are perhaps the only shares they may be able to sell.

I imagine National members, being the kind and decent souls that they are, will be praying that everything turns out all right.

And then telling themselves the Ocean course really isn't that bad after all.

[Chris Kane]

How are the other GCPL developments faring?

[Danny Goss]

Isnt the first nine at San Remo under way? What model of membership are they proposing over there?

Mark, are you saying that a "corporate" membership for Fingal is available and that for an extra $1100 you get full Gunnamatta rights? How much is that corporate deal?

In the mean time I reckon it stinks what has happened and the directors need to provide some sort of explanation to not only those who have stumped up the $50K but anybody else that is relying on their word to put money in.

[Mark_F]

Chris,

Kennedy Bay loses a lot of money.

The first nine at San Remo should just about be playable by now, with the next nine due to be finished later this year or early next, although, of course we have heard that before.

Once the front nine is playable, they will be able to settle on 46 apartments there.

Can't remember exactly, but I think the membership model is similar to Sandhurst's, in that you have a choice of a higher transferable fee, or a traditional non-transferable entry fee, plus subs.

St Andrews Beach members are supposed to get reciprocal rights, from memory.


Danny,

Corporate deal was supposed to be a three person ten year deal for $6600 entry and $3300 subs, with access to Gunnamatta until Fingal opens.

Of course, since the Lamington stall went belly up, a single person can,I believe, buy in for one third of the above cost.

Which, again, makes it harder to sell $50,000 shares, since all that extra moolah only gets you one extra course - which you may not like anyway.

[Shane Gurnett]

Mark, the thing that annoys me about St Andrews Beach is the uncertainty that surrounds it. The lack of a clubhouse 2 years after the course opened, the lack of consistency in the membership offerings, the lack of certainty that the place will still be there in 10 years time. Its all a bit confusing to me.

I have been tempted to jump into the corporate shareholding (both on my own and with others) yet at the end of the day I just can't bring myself to get close to signing up when I could not be 100% positive that my investment would be secure.

It is a real shame because I really love the course and would be thrilled to play there on a semi-regular basis. I'm sure there are many others who feel the same way. What are they trying to achieve down there?

[Mark_F]

Shane,

There is something not quite correct with your second sentence.  

The course has not yet been opened. Otherwise, you are absolutely spot on, and I imagine there must be at least a couple of hundred like-minded people in Melbourne who think the same.

It's sad, and a real indictment on the principals, that someone who loves golf, and the course(s) as much as you, is unwilling to jump over the line, especially with the corporate deal being such a bargain.

[Shane Gurnett]

Mark,

I may well take advantage of the corporate offering at some stage, however at this time my money is staying in the pocket until things become a bit clearer.

What have the owners actually cummunicated to the members in relation to their new rights? What is the justification behind the changes and have they offered any other short term solutions to the issues raised?

How are the other members down there taking the news? I can't imagine there would be anyone down there who would be very happy with the significant dilution of the membership priviledges which were outlined in the original (and revised) prospectus?

[RJ_Daley]

Gentlemen, thank you all very much for the enlightening and entertaining on-going discussions of St Andrews Beach, and all the golf course design issues, and unfortunate membership problems.  

For my reading pleasure, there really isn't a better use of time than keeping up with the gentlemen from Australia and their way of conversation and humor.  Sadly, there isn't much humor about the membership and financing issues.  But, the shear enjoyment of the engaging debates about the merits of the Gunnamatta course are worth every moment spent reading them.

BTW, does the name or word "Gunnamatta" have any translated meaning besides just the name given to the bay or region there?  

[RichMacafee]

BTW, does the name or word "Gunnamatta" have any translated meaning besides just the name given to the bay or region there?  

It's Aboriginal meaning is 'place of beach and sandhills'

[Shane Gurnett]

Mark, what is going on down there at the moment?

[Mark_F]

Shane,

Do you mean you want confirmation of something you have heard, or you just have a general inquiry?

[Shane Gurnett]

Mark, I heard yesterday that the course was closed?

[Mark_F]

Shane,

I don't think it is closed.

A few grounds staff have issues regarding payment of wages, and manned the gates at the weekend in order to inform members of the situation.

Some chose to not play, others went up to the office to give management a serve.

Apparently they "just have to be patient."

[Chris Kane]

St Andrews Maintenance Staff Take a Stand

Golf course maintenance staff at The Golf Club, St Andrews Beach in Victoria have taken a dramatic stance this week, stopping work in protest of unpaid wages and entitlements. Course maintenance staff laid down tools last Thursday (20 September) and are refusing to undertake further work on the Mornington Peninsula course until they are paid by owners Golf Club Properties Ltd. Together with the support of family members and the Australian Workers Union, maintenance and hospitality staff picketed the front gate of the club last weekend in a bid to raise awareness of their plight with club members. According to an employee spokesperson, around 10 staff, including the superintendent, haven’t been paid wages for up to six weeks and superannuation entitlements haven't been made to employees throughout 2007. During this period employees have been seeking assurances with the owners for the payment of these outstanding entitlements without success.

Sounds pretty serious - any word on when the course will reopen?

[Mark_F]

The course is open this weekend,just not to the vermin general public - which is as it should be.

[Daryl David]

They must have pretty loose labor laws in Victoria.  In the states missing payrolls is frowned upon by the Department of Labor.  They would have pad locked the place by now.

[Terry Thornton]

They must have pretty loose labor laws in Victoria.  In the states missing payrolls is frowned upon by the Department of Labor.  They would have pad locked the place by now.

Daryl,

Victorians are pussies (a general term of derision, today's football result notwithstanding)

Mark F,
I really feel for you, hope this all comes to a satisfactory conclusion and that this great course is not lost or downgraded.

[Mark_F]

Thanks, Terry.

Hopefully it will all work itself out in the end.

Will be an interesting meeting on Wednesday between management and shareholders...

[Chris Kane]

So what is happening down there Mark?