[Tommy Williamsen]

I used to belong to a course that had an abundance of straight holes.  The fairways resembled a bowling alley.  I susggested that if they turned the fairways a little here and a little there and created some movement it would make the holes a little more interesting.  No dice.  "It would make it harder to cut the fairways."  "The higher handicappes would not like it because it would make hitting the fairway more difficult."  I left the club, mostly because the only thing they really cared about was conditioning.  Their excuses were at best lame.
Periodically, I still come across courses that will have a dead straight hole with a fairway forty yards wide all the way to the green  
What is the reticence to change it?  Anyone come across a situation like this?

[wsmorrison]

Tommy,

While I am not answering your question, I hope you don't mind that I relate to you the way Flynn would occasionally create the perception that a hole turns more than it does.

Take a look at the hole as it turns very slightly right to left.  Now notice the way Flynn planted a tree line near the right side of the green that is more sharply angled right to left.  To the player standing in the fairway, this would make the turn of the hole appear to be more acute than it is in reality.

[Joe Hancock]

While I am not answering your question, I hope you don't mind that I relate to you ........

Without question....the words my wife uses to translate my responses to her.....

Sorry, Wayne...carry on.....

Joe

[wsmorrison]

Joe,

I like her already although we've never met.  

And in the same vein as,

"Enough about you, let's talk about me."  

[DMoriarty]

Wayne, can you indicate which direction is south on the diagram?

I've seen the same pattern on courses out here, and the open side is usually South, for obvious reasons.  

[Don_Mahaffey]

Tommy,
I think a dead straight hole is just fine when...
The fairway has some (or a lot of) wrinkle,
The fwy has some (or a lot of) width,
You have center line bunkers (hopefully not all in the dead center),
You have a green with some side to side pitch (think of something like an upside down taco shell) that rewards drives to the proper side and punishes those to the wrong side.


That's just one example of a straight hole that may be fun to play. I have a lot more.

Conversely, a straight, narrow hole...bordered by hazards, and with hazards fronting the green, is a terrible hole...but lots of them get built.  

[ed_getka]

Tommy,
   Another way to add interest to a straightaway hole is to put the green on a diagonal, that is well-guarded by bunkering. This provides a reason to prefer one side of the fairway over the other. Assuming of course that the approach isn't with a sand wedge.

Wayne,
    I can see what you are getting at with the trees coming in on the right up at the green, but I am not clear on the trees on the left comment and how that exaggerates what is happening on the right. Thanks for including the illustration.

[wsmorrison]

Ed,

I am convinced the right side tree line that moves right to left enhances the apparent movement of the fairway.  I've seen it (not in this example since it is NLE).  It was shown to me by a very talented architect.  

[ed_getka]

Wayne,
   I can certainly see what you are saying about the right side, but I'm not sure about the left. I understand what you are saying about the left side, but in the picture it doesn't seem to accentuate the right. If I saw it in person it may become more obvious. I like the trees squeezing in from the side concept. I'll have to watch for that more often on tree-lined holes.
   No reason to remove your explanation just because I don't see it. Someone else very well may see it.

[wsmorrison]

Ed,

I tried that trick I sent you with and without the tree line on the left.  As a result, I removed the concept from my first post.

[Scott Witter]

Tommy:

Many clubs have this same situation and many don't change for the simple reason they don't like change, or the members complain too much about 'deep' rough, or as you noticed , conditioning.

As an observation, I have found more straight holes on the older courses and many more doglegs, some quite exaggerated, on the more modern designs.  Personally, I like straight holes, because it poses more of a design challenge to make the hole interesting, if you don't have good topo to work with, or other natural features.  As a golfer, I find straight holes more difficult to hit from the tee, even though I am always trying to hit the ball straight, doglegs holes seem to always suit my eye better.

Many of the old guard designers used great bunkering strategically and cutting into the line of play that in affect made the hole play much different than straight.  Often the topo was such that thought the hole was straight as the crow flys, the player must 'work' the ball right or left to be successful and score.

I don't agree that the fairways would be "harder" to cut, different maybe to some minor degree.  Years ago I cut fairways both straight and with contoured edges, but never found either to be harder.  Mowing the fairways with contoured edges doesn't necessarily mean the hole will play any differently or feel different.  If the edges are contoured to respond to natural features and if say the trees are not in straight lines, but scuplted more naturally, then the hole could be straight, but feel very different.

In the end resistance to change is often not complicated and nothing more than old clubs who just don't like to change, even if it would be good for the whole club.  Hey, you should try and work through a master plan process and talk about significant change and see how many items members resist

[Tommy Williamsen]

Wayne, fascinating drawing.  It is essentially a straight hole that looks and even plays like a dogleg to some extent.  It certainly is an interesting hole.  It shows what a little creativity and imagination can do.

Ed, I agree angling a well a bunkered green at least creates  a more demanding second shot.

Scott,  Interesting point about sstraight holes posing morer of a challenge than a dogleg.  Inverness has a bunch of straight par fours but they all demand different things.
I also cut fairways when I was in High school.  Cutting contoured fairways was no more difficult than straight holes.

Thanks for all the comments.  There are many ways to create interest in a straight hole.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Sean, your beloved Pennard makes brilliant use of what you wrote.  I think that is what I like about, the off the radar Bull Bay, in north west Wales.  There are rock outcroppings in the most unusual places that you must either carry or go around.

[Mark_Fine]

Tommy,
Your initial point about "turning the fairways a little here and a little there" was a belief held by many of the classic designers.  The best ones believed that most holes could be improved by introducing a slight bend in the line of play.  They believed that the interest in the tee shot is increased because most players will be tempted to shorten the line to the hole by keeping as close as possible to the margin of the fairway.  

In the Flynn drawing that Wayne posted, it is hard for me to make a good interpretation of the strategy without seeing a topo and/or the hole on the ground.  There could be lots of things going on depending on the terrain.  The observation about the trees is interesting as some architects like Flynn and Tillinghast for example, would use lines of trees in situations like this, but at the same time few would rely on them as "key strategic features" since they knew trees had a finite life span.   I think the bunkering, mounds and fairway lines as well as tee/green orientation are the most important design aspects to get right on a straight golf hole.  And if you think about it, it is the same for almost any hole  

[wsmorrison]

There was a total of 10' of natural elevation change on the course with the hole that I posted.

[JNC Lyon]

The best way to have an interesting straight hole is to have a wild green.  Oak Hill West, my home course, has many straight holes without bunkering that are made interesting by a cool Ross green.  I think the course has a total of four fairway bunkers, but it never gets boring, mostly because of the greens (the terrain is rolling but not wild).  Cross bunkering of course adds interest and it would certainly add more character to few holes at OHW, but overall the green makes the hole.  But you all know that

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