Talamore GC vs. Pine Needles

[bbarkley]

I am planning a golf trip for a group of 12.  It has come down to the final round on Sunday.  To play Pine Needles it will be $100 a person more than it would be to play Talamore.  My question... is it worth the extra cash.  Knowing a little about the history of both, I personally would like to get onto Pine Needles.  But it is hard to convince non-GCA-eggheads to spend the extra $$ to play a classic Ross.  oh ya, we are playing 36 @ Tobacco Rd., plus a warm up round at the Pit.

Any input would be much appreciated.  

[JohnV]

At the one of the first gatherings of some people that now populate this website, Craig Edgemand and I played Talamore before the crowd got there and then played Pine Needles with everyone.  There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Pine Needles is worth every extra penny you have to pay.  And that was before John Fought did a major rework of it last year which supposedly has made it even better.

[michael j fay]

Ditto to the remarks of John Vander Borght.

[rjsimper]

What does your group look for in a golf course?

Talamore and Pine Needles bear absolutely no comparison to one another from a historical and design standpoint.

However, for a difference of $100, you are right...the average Joe will likely not recognize the value in choosing Pine Needles.  

When are you going?  My honest advice might be that as aeration season approaches, cross your fingers that Talamore will have punched their greens and pitch Pine Needles as being worth the extra money due to the superior design AND superior conditions.  

The three years I went to Pine Needles, they were on a different aeration schedule than most of the local daily-fee public layouts (Talamore, National, Legacy, etc)

If your group looks for courses where you can take a llama for a looper, I am afraid you will not be playing Pine Needles.

[Andy Hughes]

It really depends on your group.  I know when I took my rag-tag group of 12 to Pinehurst several years ago they were almost all disappointed by Ross' Southern Pines on our Sunday getaway round. Conditioning.

Update: I agree with Ryan who posted as I was typing.  Not sure all groups will see the value in the extra $100.  What I have learned though is that if I am the trip planner, I make the decisions. So if it is worth it to you, then do it  

[rjsimper]

It really depends on your group.  I know when I took my rag-tag group of 12 to Pinehurst several years ago they were almost all disappointed by Ross' Southern Pines on our Sunday getaway round. Conditioning.

This sort of falls into line with my previous post, but this point cannot be understated.  Same thing happened with a group that I was in at Southern Pines - general disappointment due to aerated greens and non-appreciation of the layout.  

[bbarkley]

Thank you for the responses...
The final round of our "Boozer's Battle of the Boggies X" comprises of 3 - 6 hole matches within the 4 some.  We take this round very seriously!  I am pushing for Pine Needles, being we will be there only a month (8/16-8/19) or so after the US open.  In the past our final round has been on courses like, the Dunes, Tidewater, Caladonia, Wild Dunes and the like in Myrtle Beach.  We are upgrading to the Pinehurst area for our 10th annual. Last year when I was playing Pinehurst, the greens were punched in mid June.  I am assuming Pine Needles will punch soon after the Open?  

[PCCraig]

While I have never played Talamore...I had the chance to play Pine Needles about a year and a half ago.

I loved it, and thought it was as good as anything I have played in the area!

[rjsimper]

You can call and ask - a course like Pine Needles will certainly have their aeration schedule months in advance.

I am curious about Talamore as the other option? There are many courses on par with Talamore as far as price/location in the Sand Hills area.  Is Talamore part of a package?  There are better options at that price point as well.

[bbarkley]

Talamore was offered in the place of Pine Needle as a price reducer.  I am going through tobaccoroadtravel.com.  The price of the trip is extreemly low compared to our past trips to the M.Beach area.  High end accom. will be at the Talamore Villas (this is why Talamore was suggested), low end is at the Days Inn.  Course being played are: Fri.- Pit (or similar), Sat - Tobacco Rd. (36), Sunday - Final round (Talamore, Mid-pines, Pine Needles) basically one of the top courses in the area, minus Pinehurst #2 of course.  Just trying to get the most bang for our $$.  Some would like to stay cheap to play the better course. Others would like the villas and play cheap.  I would like to find the happy medium.  Leaning towards Pine Needles.

[Bill_McBride]

I think the green fee at Mid Pines would be a bit less and it is every bit as much fun as Pine Needles, a little shorter, and differently laid out.  At MP most of the greens and tees are on the hills and ridges, you drive down into a valley.  At PN it's reversed, you typically are driving up hill or flatter.  I like them both but actually felt more of a classic course feeling at Mid Pines.

Both are quite walkable and no problem walking.  The first at Talamore is a tough start if you are walking.  But that's probably not an issue with your 12some, right?  

[Rob_Waldron]

Is it safe to assume you checked the packages through Pine Needles / Mid Pines?

As a veteran trip planner I have always heard the guys complain about price on the front end and course conditions on the back end. Bottom line, play the best courses you can afford. They are usually in the best condition and once you are there the guys do not worry about the cost.

If this is a once in a lifetime deal go with Pine Needles. I played it after the renovation and honestly prefer it to #2. Besides the guys will enjoy seeing how far they hit it past the women when the Women's Open is on TV!

BTW I am also a big fan of Talamore!

[rjsimper]

I'm with Bill on this - a non GCA crowd might prefer Mid Pines to Pine Needles - it's a little more "fun" - Pine Needles has absolutely BRUISING par 4s.  Plus it's cheaper...and trust me when I tell you that the 18th hole at Mid Pines is hands down the best in the area to finish a trip with.  Not just a round, but a trip.  Walk up toward the Inn, hang out on the hillside, and watch the other groups finish.  It's a special spot.

[Jim Sweeney]

I concur with the comments in favor of Pine Needles and MidPines. ANd you should check the packages at Pine Needles or MidPines, and perhaps play Tobacco Road as a "road trip" course. I've always felt the Donald Ross Package is a great value. I take a group there every March. I figure our total per person cost not including incidentals will be around $1300 this year.

[Bill_McBride]

I concur with the comments in favor of Pine Needles and MidPines. ANd you should check the packages at Pine Needles or MidPines, and perhaps play Tobacco Road as a "road trip" course. I've always felt the Donald Ross Package is a great value. I take a group there every March. I figure our total per person cost not including incidentals will be around $1300 this year.

Jim, how many rounds / night?  That sounds pretty good for Pinehurst.  Any meals included?

[Mike Hendren]

Interesting thread as I am also planning a 10th anniversary trip for a group of 8 in April.  Fortunately, we've got free accomodations as the golf rates are pretty high during the "gouge the yankees" season.  

We'll probably hit Anderson Creek or Keith Hills on the way from R-D airport to dollar average down.  Tobacco Road is a must, even at the GTY rate of $124.  Thanks to the comments here Pine Needles sounds like a good splurge, perhaps offset with the more affordable Southern Pines (though my peeps prefer conditioning to architecture) or Pinehurst 1 or 3.  My man Gracely really likes #3.

Any additional comments on Southern Pines' conditioning is welcome.  

Mike

[Bill_McBride]

Any additional comments on Southern Pines' conditioning is welcome.

Perhaps "Golf's Most Beloved Figure" will spot this and chime in.  The only time I played it the course was in less than optimum condition but the ball rolled well and the greens were great.  I think I heard there is a major renovation in the works.

[Mike Hendren]

Bill,

They were scheduled to close and re-grass the course last year but Ran recently informed me they did not do so.  

Mike

[Bill Gayne]

The trips mentioned are similar to the one that a work colleague of mine has planned for 16 of us the first weekend of March. Playing 18 at Mid Pines, 36 at Whispering Pines, 27 at Legacy, and 18 at Talamore. Somehow he did it for around $500 including lodging. I guess when I get there I'll find out how.

I've played Talamore before and it's typical Rees from the early 90s. I found it very similar to the Golden Horseshoe Green course.

He originally had another course scheduled in place of Mid-Pines (I can't remember the name of the course) but he came to me apologizing that there was a change and we were playing Mid-Pines. I told him it was a Donald Ross course and I got the blank stare back.

[Jim Sweeney]

Bill McB:

Room, 36 a day w/guaranteed times, breakfast and dinner (excellent food) range, club storage and cleaning, transportation around both properties.

Other packages available, www.pineneedles-midpines.com

[Rob_Waldron]

If you are staying in the Talamore Villas you will have access to the "private"? Mid South Club as well. This is the Palmer Course formerly known as Pinehurst Plantation. A new clubhouse was recently opened and play is supposedly limited to members and packages using the villas. It is one of the better AP Design courses I have played. Add it to the list!

[Craig Van Egmond]

Unless you have a fascination with llamas go directly to Mid Pines or Pine Needles. They are both head and shoulders above anything you'll see at Talamore, worth every penny.

[bbarkley]

All very great information.  We are using www.tobaccoroadtravel.com for our travel package.  The price is incredible... 3 nights, 4 rounds (18@Pit, 36@T.R., and 18@Talamore) all for under $400.  We are going during the hot season in the SandHills area.  tobaccoroadtravel.com offers a pretty extensive list of golf courses and accommodations.  I have got plenty of evidence in my favor for playing a Ross course instead of talamore.  Thanks again to all!!

[Jay Flemma]

No contest...Talamore was boring and nothing I had not seen before.  PN was refreshing and interesting with a solid finish.

Do PN...you'll really be glad you did.  If you play Talamore, you'll wish you went fishing...or Phishing, whichever you prefer...musical Phishing that is, not computer phishing.

Capital P phishing, not lower case phishing.

[rjsimper]

No contest...Talamore was boring and nothing I had not seen before.  PN was refreshing and interesting with a solid finish.

Do PN...you'll really be glad you did.  If you play Talamore, you'll wish you went fishing...or Phishing, whichever you prefer...musical Phishing that is, not computer phishing.

Capital P phishing, not lower case phishing.

Let it at least be said that I think there is no debate from ANYONE whether Mr. Barkley would enjoy PN more than Talamore, however the same cannot be said with as much certainty about his cohorts.