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Ran Morrissett

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Feature Interview with Anthony Pioppi is posted...
« on: January 19, 2007, 11:20:46 AM »
...and it centers around his recently published book on nine hole courses entitled To the Nines.

People who ‘kind of’ follow boxing seem to care only about the heavyweight division. However, true boxing fans appreciate the Haglers, Durans, and Leonards of the world as being pound for pound as good or better than the heavyweights. Same for golf with most people who ‘kind of’ play golf only caring about ‘18 hole championship courses’ and sniffing at nine hole courses. True golfers though make the pilgrimage to The Sacred Nine. Having played there, one happily argues that 1) RW&N is as good hole for hole as 99.99% of the 18 hole courses out there and 2) there ought to be more such quality nine holers.

Anthony’s book doesn’t analyze Mildenhall as he stays in the United States, which proves to have plenty of nine hole courses worthy of study, be them in the past (e.g. Macdonald/Raynor’s spectacular Ocean Links) or the present (e.g. MacKenzie’s Northwood, Ross’s Rolling Rock and Whitinsville). Though I haven’t played there, take Pioppi’s description of Rolling Rock and its amazing greens. I wonder if ‘only’ building nine holes emboldened Ross to build such greens (perhaps like Dunn at RW&N)?? Did he feel extra pressure to never permit the golfer’s mind to wander or for the golfer to feel shortchanged by only playing a nine holer? Or was Ross’s team freer to pour more attention/thought into the design as they were only building nine holes? Whatever, the result is of exception and that’s all that matters.

As I noted when posting the Culver Academies nine hole course profile, the ability to whip a round a quality nine hole course is the ideal way to get outdoors and enjoy the game on a regular basis when family/business constraints only allow for a brief getaway. Take this weekend. My wife is away with friends and I am outnumbered two to one with/against  ;) a seven and three year old with no chance of getting babysitting support to spend four plus hours on a course. I could either a) play a quick nine in an hour or hour and a half or b) read a thread with Paul and Moriarty as they subtract from the sum of human knowledge  :P. The nines don’t return at Southern Pines CC (which is one of the reasons that the routing is so superb) so I’m out of luck.

With everyone so busy, nine hole courses should be enjoying a comeback, especially with the price of land these days. Plus, there are obviously more 50 acre parcels well suited for golf than 100 plus acre parcels. Yet, nine hole courses labor under a stigma in America of being inherently inferior. Indeed, I’m only aware of one man who has seen the benefits in building a first rate nine hole course in recent times. The man who took that chance along the east side of Lake Michigan showed/proved himself to be a free thinker. The pressure was on him and his architect to build nine holes that would be of great interest – nine duds would have been a mess. With a nod in appreciation toward Pine Valley, succeed they did and interest in being invited to become a member was high from the outset. Essentially, the man understood that golfers will seek/be drawn to quality golf. The fact that he later found Bandon speaks volumes but perhaps isn’t so surprising after all.

Anthony’s book educates on the finest virtues that 9 hole courses possess in the States. Nearly all the great master architects built nine hole courses here. It is but one lesson that they taught us that we presently ignore. For architects that struggle to build just one great hole out of eighteen, think of the benefits of building a nine holer: if you build a great hole, the golfer might well play it twice and your batting average doubles  ;D

Being as well done as it is, Anthony’s book is a timely reminder of what could be once again and perhaps it can stimulate interest in bringing back the nine hole course onto the American golf landscape.

Cheers,

Mike_Sweeney

Re:Feature Interview with Anthony Pioppi is posted...
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2007, 11:36:23 AM »
In addition to buying the book which is very good, I would suggest that people get on Tony's email list during the book tour. There have not been any sightings yet from The Today Show, 60 Minutes or Geraldo, but the anecdotes from more than a few pub based book signings in Connecticut have been hilarious.

Geoffrey Childs

Re:Feature Interview with Anthony Pioppi is posted...
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2007, 11:51:32 AM »
Tony is a great man.

It's about time he was interviewed.


dsilk

Re:Feature Interview with Anthony Pioppi is posted...
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2007, 01:14:07 PM »
I second that opinion on Anthony's character- ever since the boy scout recanted his testimony, Mr P. has been a model citizen.

John Keenan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Feature Interview with Anthony Pioppi is posted...
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2007, 01:36:39 PM »
Mike S how do we get on the mailing list?

Excellent book and excellent interview. A Fender Strat quite impressive. Is that Ampex a tube amp? Why not a Marshall or Kustom   ;D
The things a man has heard and seen are threads of life, and if he pulls them carefully from the confused distaff of memory, any who will can weave them into whatever garments of belief please them best.

ANTHONYPIOPPI

Re:Feature Interview with Anthony Pioppi is posted...
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2007, 04:11:47 PM »
Dave,

Wow, did somebody tell you that you were funny? I paid you a lot of $$$ ever to bring that misunderstanding up again. When you go to read the interview let me know and I'll help you with the big words.

John,

I had a Marshall Major reissue, a '67 Bandmaster and a '65 Deluxe Reverb that I sold in 1988 for $35, they are now going for $2,000! The Ampeg is a '65 all-tube that I customized with a Webber speaker; just a killer sound.

Send me an email and I'll put you on the list, mind you it's a very eclectic crowd... cops and robbers are represented.

Anthony
« Last Edit: January 19, 2007, 04:13:19 PM by Anthony Pioppi »

dsilk

Re:Feature Interview with Anthony Pioppi is posted...
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2007, 04:35:15 PM »
please include me on the list too...

John Keenan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Feature Interview with Anthony Pioppi is posted...
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2007, 04:38:51 PM »
I also had a Deluxe Reverb and a Gibson cannot rememeber the model that I sold as a group for $150.00  seemed like a good deal at the time. I have not thought of a Bandmaster in a long time.

Do you remembr Vox?  Marshall was "the amp" when I was young. Sadly out of my legue then. Huge sound quite impressive. Custom was the tuck and rolled amps from the early 70's quite popular at the time

Dropped you an e-mail as you noted

The things a man has heard and seen are threads of life, and if he pulls them carefully from the confused distaff of memory, any who will can weave them into whatever garments of belief please them best.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Feature Interview with Anthony Pioppi is posted...
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2007, 06:01:47 PM »
Ran:

Your description of the merits of nine hole courses make me wonder why some of the "bankrupt" courses which are selling out to real estate don't keep nine holes going and sell the other half.  Nearly all of these cases have a regular clientele who are being abandoned in the process, just too small a clientele to support 18 holes ... so why not nine?

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Feature Interview with Anthony Pioppi is posted...
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2007, 08:07:43 PM »
Ran:

Your description of the merits of nine hole courses make me wonder why some of the "bankrupt" courses which are selling out to real estate don't keep nine holes going and sell the other half.  Nearly all of these cases have a regular clientele who are being abandoned in the process, just too small a clientele to support 18 holes ... so why not nine?

Tom - That is exactly what has happened with Old Carolina near Hilton Head. They developed half of the property and are continuing to operate nine holes... and doing quite well!
« Last Edit: January 19, 2007, 08:10:36 PM by Michael Whitaker »
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Noel Freeman

Re:Feature Interview with Anthony Pioppi is posted...
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2007, 01:07:40 PM »
Can some one please tell me about Hay Harbor.. Any pictures?

JMorgan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Feature Interview with Anthony Pioppi is posted...
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2007, 01:15:01 PM »
Dave,

Wow, did somebody tell you that you were funny? I paid you a lot of $$$ ever to bring that misunderstanding up again. When you go to read the interview let me know and I'll help you with the big words.

John,

I had a Marshall Major reissue, a '67 Bandmaster and a '65 Deluxe Reverb that I sold in 1988 for $35, they are now going for $2,000! The Ampeg is a '65 all-tube that I customized with a Webber speaker; just a killer sound.

Send me an email and I'll put you on the list, mind you it's a very eclectic crowd... cops and robbers are represented.

Anthony

Tony, Give me a Gibson LP Standard or ES-335 and a Mark Sampson-era Matchless DC-30 any day.  PS.  The most underrated Fender guitar is the pre-'65 Jazzmaster.  

ANTHONYPIOPPI

Re:Feature Interview with Anthony Pioppi is posted...
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2007, 01:25:46 PM »
James my man,

You know you're gear. I'm very partial to Strats but a friend just picked up a Nash Telecaster that he says is the most unreal guitar he has ever played. I can't wait to try it out.

Anthony

Rock on Wayne
Rock on Garth


JMorgan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Feature Interview with Anthony Pioppi is posted...
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2007, 01:39:14 PM »
James my man,

You know you're gear. I'm very partial to Strats but a friend just picked up a Nash Telecaster that he says is the most unreal guitar he has ever played. I can't wait to try it out.

Anthony

Rock on Wayne
Rock on Garth



Rock on indeed.  That Nash Tele is a great value... and if you like it, try the Tex-Mex, which has a humbucker in the neck position.  My first two guitars were Fenders -- a '74 tele custom and an early '80s strat.  

John Keenan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Feature Interview with Anthony Pioppi is posted...
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2007, 02:16:57 PM »
T thought there were 3 in the Fender "caster" line Telecaster, Stratacaster and ?  I thouhg it was based on pickups 1-2-3. Am I off base on that?
The things a man has heard and seen are threads of life, and if he pulls them carefully from the confused distaff of memory, any who will can weave them into whatever garments of belief please them best.

JMorgan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Feature Interview with Anthony Pioppi is posted...
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2007, 02:35:14 PM »
T thought there were 3 in the Fender "caster" line Telecaster, Stratacaster and ?  I thouhg it was based on pickups 1-2-3. Am I off base on that?
Ok WAAAAAY OT...
John, Fender started out with the Broadcaster in 1950, which then became the "Nocaster" after Gretsch threatened to file a patent infringement suit based on one of their guitars from the '30s ("Broadcaster" decal removed from headstock).  The renamed "Telecaster" came into being in '51.  Strats were introduced soon thereafter ('54).  Fender has introduced many other electric models, such as the Jaguar, Jazzmaster, MusicMaster, Esquire, etc, but no more 'casters.   Both tele/strat use single-coil p-u's that vary slightly in spec, but they do not account for the type of 'caster so much as body shape/size, 2 v. 3 pick-ups, so on so forth.

ANTHONYPIOPPI

Re:Feature Interview with Anthony Pioppi is posted...
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2007, 02:35:17 PM »
John,

Tele's have 2 and Strats have 3. I just read a piece that Pink Floyd guitarist David Gilmour has a special switch on all his Strats so he can activate the bridge and neck pickups at the same time.

Noel,

You need to play Hay Harbor next visit to Fishers Island. There has been a concerted effort to find history of the course and little has been uncovered other than the fact that the clubhouse was once located near the first green, meaning that was probably the 9th. If you look at Google Earth, it looks like the current 9th tee was probably angled towards today's seventh green.

Anthony


tlavin

Re:Feature Interview with Anthony Pioppi is posted...
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2007, 02:42:24 PM »
Great book, so I'm sure it's a great interview.

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Feature Interview with Anthony Pioppi is posted...
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2007, 02:53:59 PM »
Very good stuff, though I can't believe you left out the 9th at Whitinsville among your top holes. But of course that's like griping that there are really 101 courses that have to be on your top-100.

You do make a good case that 9-holers should be more popular today.

ANTHONYPIOPPI

Re:Feature Interview with Anthony Pioppi is posted...
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2007, 03:27:34 PM »
Brad,

It was a tough choice. Now I feel bad. Can I change my answer?

I think there are 22 courses mentioned in the book and I had to choose just 9 holes. For each one picked there is another that could easily replace it. Plus, I wrote about the Whitinsville 9th earlier in the interview and I wanted to get as much information out there as I could.

Anthony




Brad Klein

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Re:Feature Interview with Anthony Pioppi is posted...
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2007, 05:27:09 PM »
Tony, now you see the grief I get.

I once had a guy ask me my top-3 favorites. Then, when I named Cypress, Dornoch and Royal Melbourne, he got upset and started yelling at me about "how could you leave out Pebble Beach?"

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Feature Interview with Anthony Pioppi is posted...
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2007, 02:10:09 AM »
For you Podcast listeners, there is an interview with Anthony on  Golf Smarter where he discusses his book with Fred Greene.  If you don't have an iPod, you can still listen online by clicking the  "PLAY" button next to the title of the interview (currently #2 on the list).  

Fred, based in NorCal, does a good job in the interview and seems to be an architect junkie even though his podcasts vary in topics from instruction, interviews with Head Pro's at various courses and a series called "shot strategy" at interesting courses such as The Bridges in San Ramon, CA ???

Other Podcasts include an interview with Golf in the Kingdom author Michael Murphy, Brian Silva, Jim Fazio and Jeffrey Bauer.
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Alfie

Re:Feature Interview with Anthony Pioppi is posted...
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2007, 08:20:48 AM »
Mike,

Thanks for the link to Anthony's podcast interview. Well worth listening to !

Anthony & Ran,

Great interview and highly relevant topic / issue regarding America's (& the world's) 9 hole layouts.
The 9 holers were the birthplace of all golf architecture IMO, and are certainly looked down upon by most golfers for all the wrong reasons. It saddens me say this, but I believe the Americanisation of the sport has played a big part in the general "perception" of what constitutes a "good or bad" golf course. Personally, I don't believe there has ever been a "bad" course built / laid out  ;)
I tell people that sometimes the 9 holer is best for their game. Treat the first 9 as your education ; then play the second 9 for your graduation !

re Q 6 ; You say that there wasn't a grain of sand to be found ? Are you certain the bunker in question was actually a sand bunker ?

Hope the book is a roarin' success !

Alfie.

ANTHONYPIOPPI

Re:Feature Interview with Anthony Pioppi is posted...
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2007, 12:07:59 PM »
Alfie,

I am certain about the bunker having sand in it. I've probably found at least a half dozen where not a grain was found, even soil probing to a good depth has turned up nothing. All the paintings associated with the book sho sand in the bunkers.

Mike,

Thanks for bringing up the Golf Smarter Podcast. Fred was fun to talk with and I'm glad it came out that way on the recording.

Anthony

Alfie

Re:Feature Interview with Anthony Pioppi is posted...
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2007, 02:06:50 PM »
Anthony,

I asked because my next question was whether you had tried a little excavation to see what lay under the sward ? But if it's conclusive that they were indeed sand bunkers, then that's fine. Many of the early (1890's - 1920's) inland courses in Scotland installed "grass" bunkers as hazards in the first layouts. Sand being somewhat un-natural to the inland terrain.
Obviously, carting sand for such a purpose was also deemed overly expensive / unnecessary for the small artisan clubs.

Alfie.