[PCCraig]

I have been thinking alot the past couple weeks about public golf, and how it has evolved with the times and it's economic surroundings. Not only the past, but where golf will be in the future. This isn't so much an issue of Golf Course Architecture, but more so of the operations, marketing, and fundings of the clubs, how do you think they have changed?

The three examples I could think of were; Wilmette Golf Course, in Wilmette, IL, The Glen Club, in Glenview, IL, and Bandon Dunes.

Wilmette GC is a local muni course, built in the golf course boom of the early 1920's in chicago, and is still run today, somewhat successfully on a low budget.

The Glen Club is corporate golf to the extreme. Everything, from the memberships, clubhouse, to the course architecture oozes business golf. I suppose this is something that can be attributed to when the club was financed...the late 1990's.

Then there is Bandon, which became a success when it abandoned the business golf resort feel and got back to basics...which leads me to the future...

Is the future of golf the Bandon style resort? With the production of golf courses, esp. public in Chicago, is the allure of an exotic local (IE NZ or Tasmania) the last step?

Interested to hear what you all have to say, hope the new year is treating everyone well!

[Mike_Sweeney]

Then there is Bandon, which became a success when it abandoned the business golf resort feel and got back to basics...which leads me to the future...

My only question here is was Pebble ever a Bandon style resort? I don't know.

One step or style that you missed is the Muni/State takeover of private clubs, mainly from depression era. In the New York area, that would include:

The Knoll, NJ
Montauk Downs
Longshore in Westport, CT
Timber Point
Hominy Hill, NJ

[PCCraig]

Hi Mike,

That is very true...

I have heard alot of things from friends in mid-sized towns such as Cleveland and St. Louis of private clubs going public once again. Do you think this will be another trend?

Thanks!

[Jon Wiggett]

Pat,

thats the great thing about this game. There is room for all types.

[Cliff Hamm]

I would add one more period that begain in the 1960's or so.  This is when public fee courses began to be developed but were privately owned.  These courses tend to be quite playable but are not country club for a day experiences.  The courses of Geoffrey Cornish in the northeast would be an example.

[PCCraig]

Hi Cliff,

At what point then did private investors see that building and owning a public golf course was a solid investment?

Also, how has the service that you all have gotten at various courses changed over the years? Do you think it follows the same arch?

Thanks!

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Wasn't part of Bethpage originally a private club?

The reverse happened in Philadelphia when Flynn's public Marble Hall became the private Green Valley CC.

Munis are still being built today on the fringes of urban areas. Heron Glen(Hunterdon County) and Neshanic Valley(Somerset County) in NJ and Lederach(Lower Salford Twp.) in PA are recent examples. So is Emerald Links(Egg Harbor Twp) in NJ.

Isn't Bollingbrook near Chicago a new muni?

[Chris_Blakely]

The Green Course at Bethpage (designed by Devereaux Emmet) was orginally known as the Lennox Hills GC and was originally a private golf course.

[Cliff Hamm]

Pat

Far from an authority but based on observations in New England and New Jersey to some extent.  It seems to me that the golf boom of the Arnold Palmer era included privately funded courses, typically on land away from the cities, where munis existed.  Many of these were at least to some extent mom and pop operations.  Im not sure if it was viewed as a solid investment or a way to make a living from the game they loved.  I wouold guess the owner(s) was often the superintendent, cashier, chef, etc.

As far as service the '60's era courses were not founded on service.  There was and is no one to take your bag, etc., which is fine with me.  The service component I believe started in the '90s with the advent of country club for a day.

[SB]

While Glen Club certainly targets the corporate golfer, there are a much larger number of high end daily fees that target the daily fee golfer, but certainly are happy to accept corporate play.  There is also a subsegment of development related housing, which accelerated in the 90's, but certainly existed before that.

Resort golf courses have been around almost as long as golf courses in general.  Many have been built in remote areas, although in time, things will build up around it.  Are you saying Bandon is different?  If so, how?

[Phil_the_Author]

Steve and Chris,

The story of Bethpage is a bit different than most municipal courses that become such because of a takeover/buyout by the locale.

For several years, beginning in the mid-20's, New York State had made overtures to railroad tycoon Benjamin Yoacum to purchase a tract of undeveloped land that he owned in Farmingdale, New York. He turned down every offer. After he died at the end of November, 1929, and with the crash earlier that month, his family approached the state about a possible purchase of that and the Lenox Hills Golf Club.  

Lenox Hills was a housing developed completely financed and owned by Yoakum and the golf course was on a tract of land in the middle of it. Because New York State desired it the family agreed to wait until they could afford to purchase it. Even though money was still not available, they began leasing the golf course in the spring of 1932, changing its name to the Bethpage Golf Club.

Originally the plans for Bethpage Ste Park called for a single new golf course, but the quite unexpected and enormous popularity of the Bethpage Golf Club brought a change of plans and so in the late spring of 1933 a decision was made to build three courses instead.

The land though was still not owned by the state and the plan to pay for the construction through the WPA was about to be denied because there was a requirement that whatever the WPA worked on HAD to be owned by the state ot local community BEFORE they would agree to do the work.

Not one to be denied, Robert Moses through the various commissions that he ran for New York State, guaranteed repayment of a $100,000 loan from the towns of Oyster Bay and Huntington that he used as down payment to the Yoakum family, who then accepted a New York State bond for nearly $990,000 to cover the rest of the purchase price.

Based upon this the WPA agreed to do the work, but only after the paperwork was completed. Moses was not one to wait and began some preliminary clearing of the land in December of 1933 knowing that the WPA would begin in January of 1934 after title to the land would officially pass to New York.

[JohnV]

I have heard alot of things from friends in mid-sized towns such as Cleveland and St. Louis of private clubs going public once again. Do you think this will be another trend?

That is definitely the case around Pittsburgh.  Probably 1/4 of the so-called private courses in the area are really public or semi-private at this point.  Some are willing to say they are and others quietly let anyone who calls play.

Times have been tough, especially for the mid-range clubs that had pretty good initation fees at one time and have big club houses to support.

[Joe Bentham]

Resort golf courses have been around almost as long as golf courses in general.  Many have been built in remote areas, although in time, things will build up around it.  Are you saying Bandon is different?  If so, how?

Bandon is different.  It isn't a tropical local where the weather is the main attraction.  As for things being built up in time around Bandon, that remains to be seen, although I wouldn't hold your breath.  The resort does a good job   of getting people to the resort and keeping them there.  A vast majority of the guests never make it into Bandon.  We're so far from a major population center that I'm not sure Bandon'll ever be more then a sleepy Coast town with one of the truly special places in golf 10 mins. away.  Much like Dornoch or Lahinch.  Although if you paid attention to real estate in Bandon you might disagree with me.  Lots of people trying to get rich quick..

[Adam Clayman]

How a discussion of Chicago's evolution in public golf doesn't mention Jackson Park is just wrong.

Without those city owned muni's the resort model will be hard pressed to be a big part of the future.

A major proving ground for the future resort paying customer is grown out of being able to go somewhere close, frequently, experiencing the game inexpensively.

At least thats what hooked me.

[Rob_Waldron]

PAt

Have you had an opportunity to play George Dunne recently? The Forest Preserve retained Killian and Nugent to design the course after they saw their work at Kemper Lakes. When the course opened it was recognized as one of the top DF courses in the US. It fell on hard times until Billy Casper Golf became the manage two years ago.

I played it last year and it is truly a wonderful course. The playing conditions of the turf has improved dramatically. The bunkers are a work in progress but that is only due to their size and number. I understand the course will host local US Open qualifying this year.

[PCCraig]

Adam-

Very good point about Jackson Park...forgot about that! Do you (with JP being one, if not the first public golf course in the nation) is responsible for a domino effect allowing Chicago to become the golf town that it is now? Exposing that many golfers that would not have otherwised touched a club sure would help the future, but to what effect?

Rob-

I played George Dunne a couple of times approx. two years ago. I didn't think the course was all too bad, it was in bad shape...but had alot of its own charm.

It reminds me alot of Aldeen GC outside of Rockford, ever been? It actually relates to this thread. It is a public GC that is partly funded by a trust that a Mr. Aldeen set up before he passed. Kinda interesting...and a solid course to boot.

Thanks guys!

[PCCraig]

Does anyone have any knowledge of the history of Jackson Park GC?

[Adam Clayman]

Pat, JP was built on thedebris landfill that was created from the tear down of the Columbian Exposition of 1893. It was the first public course west of the Alleghenies.

I find it hard to believe that a certain Macdoanld wasn't somehow involved.

As for the course being responsible for the proliferation of public golf in Chicago, I don't see how it couldn't have been a factor.

[W.H. Cosgrove]

I think it is neseccary to break the category down into its segments.  

The private sector I will leave alone as I think its pretty clear what it is.  Then you have the municipally owned and the privately owned public access courses.  

The privately owned exist to provide a profit to their owners.  While the municipally owned have traditionally provided access to the game for all demographic levels.  

The issue is now being blurred by municipalities utilizing public funding to provide high end daily fee courses.  Las Vegas, La Quinta and now Tacoma have examples of these creations.  

The question I raise is whether it is correct to use low cost public funding to compete in this high end arena while the low end taxpayer is shut out and essentially shouldering the risk?

Is this good for golf or does it provide a barrier for new public players to enter the game and are there long term consequences to this?

[Cassandra Burns]

If it wasn't for inexpensive municipal golf courses, I would never have become a golfer.  Because my family would never have picked up the game and cherished it for decades and decades.  Municipal courses should be focused on providing access for as many people as possible.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

WH Cosgrove

Not only are municipalities doing higher end publics, some, like Egg Harbor Twp in NJ, are building next door to higher fee privately owned new publics. This has created a controversy in NJ as the muni Emerald Links, built on a landfill, is right down the road from Twisted Dune and Harbor Pines, both privately owned publics. Should this course have been built? Probably not. But since the Mayor has his name on the course, it's officially McCullough's Emerald Links, he pushed it through. There has been some question as to its financial viability.

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