What if there was no water?

[Anthony_Nysse]

Gentleman,
  Knowing that Barona is high end resort course, I'd guess that those fairways were scalpted down, getting ready for their overseed, meaning that they are indeed, BERMUDA.  I'm sure that the overseeded turf is where Barona makes it's money. Similar to Harbor Town, Barona will probably always have to overseed, unfortunatly. The area that Barona is located still get VERY cold temps and frost and without the overseed, the fairways and rough would go dormant, thus making "carts on path" the only option. Not good for resort golf...this is just a hunch, someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC
 

[Pete Lavallee]

Once again, I will say that I don't believe those FWs are bermuda.  Can anyone confirm or challenge that? I think they are a heavy blend of rye, bents, and poa.  I think Aidan just drew some lines and worked some color magic...

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but... wrong you are Mr. Daley. The fairways are  composed of sodded bermuda grass; they invested quite a lot sodding the entire course. Notice I didn't say 100% bermuda because the Poa Anna has finally made its' way there; the fairways were completely covered in lime green with seed heads last Feb. The hot summer climate keeps it from being an issue past spring.

I actually played there during this time in Sept.; the club was careful to warn me that the course was very, very, very dry in anticipatiojn of the overseeding; it played beautifully, although woods and wedges demand extra respect with the tight lies. We had these same conditions 3 years ago in the summer, there was a drought and a small dispute over water rights. The Reservation decided to only water tees and greens that summer to leave enough water on site to fight any possible wild fires. They completely drained the retention pond on hole #9 to keep the grass alive. It was a magical summer; the conditions scared most people away, they were even offering a discount! As most of you know, Barona plays much more like it was intended under dry, firm and fast conditions. It's not only easier to run into trouble, it's much harder to find the right spot in the fairway to get the correct angle to the always firm green surfaces.

Tony's quite right that Wild Cat Canyon is very prone to frost and with the extra wide fairways, cart path only is a real drag here.

Six years after opening they still have not removed the bunker liner that helps supports the native side of the bunker walls. It was intended to allow the native area to meld and prevent washouts on the high side. I know Todd has been recommending for years that they remove it; if it hasn't done its' job by now it never will.

JC will be happy to know they now have alcohol on the front nine only and inside the Casino at the Steak House. One drive down that windy road in and out will explain why they had such a hard time getting even a restricted liquor license.

New bunkers were added on 6, 9, 10, 12 and 13 last year when the course received an update in anticipation of the Nationwide Tour Championship to be held here in 2007 and 2008. 500 yards were also added to bring the overall total to 7500 yards.

[RJ_Daley]

Pete, You da man, at Barona.  I'll take your word as gospel.  

[Scott_Burroughs]

I seem to recall several years ago that the parking lot at Barona wasn't dry.  Adult beverages were served in the proximity of Pete L's car.  A cooler magically appeared.  Pretty good prices, too.

[Bill_McBride]

Dick, I guess I'm just curious about why you were playing in your PJs.  There has got to be some story there!  Perhaps a bet was lost....  

[S. Huffstutler]

Quote from Sandy, The Superintendent at Barona Creek who contacted me today......"The golf course was closed down at the time in preparation for overseeding, as can be seen by no golfers. The fairways are indeed bermuda. They are 419. Course was scalped down and ready for seed. I wish we could look that consistent by not overseeding but this morning we were down to 12 degrees. We would be 4 months of carts on paths due to the inland cold nights and probably very firm. Being a resort, we will probably always overseed. We certainly have had summer water challenges but that was purely overseeding prep"

Regards,

Steve

[RJ_Daley]

Bill, it was my feeble attempt to emulate the fashion accumen of my hero, Dan King.  I fear I fell short...  

[Pete Lavallee]

Sandy Clark is doing a great job at Barona and should indeed be praised. They hand pick Poa from the fringes and greens and they are still pure bent, a real luxury in San Diego Co.  They provide conditions that both accomodate the resort golfer but provide a real challange for the better player; truely the best of both worlds.

[Bill_McBride]

Bill, it was my feeble attempt to emulate the fashion accumen of my hero, Dan King.  I fear I fell short...  

As long as you were having fun!  

[Jonathan Cummings]

Wheeew.  Thanks Pete.  A 'wet' Barona will need a re-visit although I would still prefer quaffing an ale at Rustic.  Now if Rustic would just build a 5-star, Donald-inspired hotel on the property.... (I think that sound you hear is a scream as Geoff deletes my name and bars me from his discussion group!   )

JC

[Steve Okula]

I am posting on behalf of Sandy Clark, the GCS at Barona Creek. These are his words.

Quote-
"Aidan Bradley posed the question, about what if we had no water?.  Most of the pictures are from Barona Creek Golf Club.  I would like to clarify some of the issues that were raised.  Fairways are indeed 419 bermuda.  The dormant looking pictures were taken while the course was being prepared for overseeding.  Fairways and roughs had been scalped and verticut.  We normally reduce water usage in early September to stockpile for the overseeding process.  If I could create that neat and clean brown look,it would be great.  Pete's comment about cold temperatures is right on the money.  We were 12 degrees F. last night and have been around 16 the past three.  Being a resort, the look is important.  More important are playing conditions.  With the frost season beginning in November and lasting until March, playability would be poor without overseeding.  If left dormant, only the very best golfers would find our course appealing.  We would also need to restrict carts to paths for the entire dormant season to reduce the obvious wear.  Recovery would be very slow.  Obviously, the business choice is to look good!  Controlled traffic and no overseeding would be great for bermuda but we play more rounds during the cool season.

Maybe someday, due to water costs, availability, fuel and seed costs, the industry will get away from overseeding.  I don't see resorts going in that direction with the current competitive environment.  The new bunkering is great!  Now we only have 114 or 7 acres of sand.  I meet with PGA people in early February.  I hope we can shrink fairway width for the Nationwide Tour Championship.  The San Diego State Invitational this past October showed that the length will be of no consequence to scores.  We will need to tighten things up to keep some kid from shooting a couple of 59's.  I don't think they will let me keep the greens stimping at 14 like they are right now.  Amazing what that cold weather will do."
-End quote.

[tlavin]

I doubt that Americans would continue to play on yellow fairway, but many on this site are still erect over the memory of the Open Championship at Royal Yellow Brick Road, so there's no accounting for taste...