If Doak, C&C, or others got anything they wanted..

[Jon Spaulding]

Jon,

I think that might have been subsequent to the original "rules of play"

Perhaps an amendment was made to the constitution shortly after the place opened. Unlv was certainly playing there in the early 90's, if not sooner. Chris Riley would have been there from 92-95; "When with the Rebels, Riley and Campbell practiced at many of Las Vegas's best courses including Shadow Creek"

The mystique sure is gone since Mirage opened it up to anyone. On the positive side, instead of losing 6 figures to SW to get an invite, all I now have to do is lose $500!

[Jeff Doerr]

Jordan,

This is maybe a  re-phrase of your question...

A number of years ago one of my good friends got to play Shadow Creek during the invite only days. His business partner knew someone close to wynn, so they had I think two visits to the course. My friend brought home "The Book" that you can get at the course. I sat down with it for at least an hour. The thought that kept coming to me was that this course was like the architect part of the Jack 5 golf game - take a flat piece of canvas and do what you want.

I think that Wynn had input on some general ideas. He did not want any views available to the surrounding desert, only the mountains would be visible, it was to be a Shangri-La evperience, etc.

To me this course is a portrait of Fazio's work at that stage. It looks very much like something he would have done outside Atlanta. It does not look anything like what you'd find in barren and flat Nevada desert.

I think a re-phrase of the question is, "Would Doak, C&C, build a course that is totally different than the surroundings?"

Would you build a parkland/woodland course in the middle of Dubai? If you where challenged with building that for almost unlimited funds - would you do it?

[Jordan Wall]

Jeff,

Your better at this than I am.  
 
Those questions should yield some great responses, what I was hoping for.

have you ever played Shadow Creek?


Jon,

A picture would be wonderful of that house.
I can imagine it must be stunning.
The course looks cool to, and more pictures would be great!

On another note about Shadow Creek..
Once at Seattle I caddied for somebody who loved Shadow Creek.
He said each day there were seven Japanese Business men that would play the course and bet some absurd amount of money each day.
Supposedly, there were always seven guys.
They each had a cart, hit there ball, went off, the next person followed, and they all followed one another until all seven had hit.
Apparently they took about 2 hours to play the course each day, and they played through everybody.
Now I have absolutely no idea if there is any truth to this but does anybody know if this really happens?  It may sound like I'm on drugs or something with a story so weird but for all I know it could be true.

[Joe Bentham]

comparing Ballyneal, a great natural site, to SC which was desert waste is silly.  Tom might have been told to build the best course he could, but he wasn't given 38 million to do it.  Ballyneal was a great natural site with many of the elements of good golf already there.  SC was less then a stellar site and all of the golf elements had to be man made.  Bad comparsion.  And I'm sure the budget on the Rawls course was less then an 1/8 of SC's budget....

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jon Spaulding,

Shadow Creek opened in 1989, and I believe that play was confined to those that Wynn personally approved.

Gradually, the almost impossible access was eased.

[Jeff Doerr]

Jordan,

My friend went to Shadow Creek (Disneyland) and all I got was a shirt!  Actually a nice shirt and the joy of sharing in his joy.

[Dan Smoot]

comparing Ballyneal, a great natural site, to SC which was desert waste is silly.  Tom might have been told to build the best course he could, but he wasn't given 38 million to do it.  Ballyneal was a great natural site with many of the elements of good golf already there.  SC was less then a stellar site and all of the golf elements had to be man made.  Bad comparsion.  And I'm sure the budget on the Rawls course was less then an 1/8 of SC's budget....

I will say when playing the Rawls Course,  you have no idea you are playing golf in West Texas.  I feel absolutely transported to somewhere else.  A great golf course with plenty of challenge.  Some wickedly wonderful par 3's.

[Jordan Wall]

Jordan,

My friend went to Shadow Creek (Disneyland) and all I got was a shirt!  Actually a nice shirt and the joy of sharing in his joy.

Jeff,

Was it a pink shirt?


Did he like the course?
And, was it still $500 to play?


And does anybody know if what the Seattle member told me was true or not?

Thanks

[Greg Tallman]

The Wynns were (I think there was a falling out) huge supporters of UNLV and I do believe the golf team was always allowed to practice there.

[Jon Spaulding]

The Wynns were (I think there was a falling out) huge supporters of UNLV and I do believe the golf team was always allowed to practice there.

Thanks Greg; that's the version I'd been told, and they were definitely playing there in 92....so if there are any members of the team from 89-92 out there......

[George Pazin]

And I'm sure the budget on the Rawls course was less then an 1/8 of SC's budget....

Actually, I believe Tom has indicated it was rather closer than you suggest, but that the bulk of it was donated by someone, so it did not affect the pricing structure of the course.

Regardless, it's one of my favorites.