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Mark_Rowlinson

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Lasting Influence
« on: January 10, 2007, 11:04:27 AM »
We've had many a discussion on who might have been the most influential architects in terms of how their innovations moved architecture forward.  But which of the golden age (let's say active before 1914) architects continues to influence today's architects and architecture the most?

Garland Bayley

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Re:Lasting Influence
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2007, 06:53:04 PM »
We've had many a discussion on who might have been the most influential architects in terms of how their innovations moved architecture forward.  But which of the golden age (let's say active before 1914) architects continues to influence today's architects and architecture the most?

Pete Dye brought about quite a revolution here in the US. However, he didn't do it based on a golden age architect that I know of, but rather links courses that have stood the test of time.

He did influence Bill Coore and Tom Doak (among others) who are important (among others) today. I don't know Bill Coore's influence, but I do know Tom is an Alister Mackenzie disciple of sorts.

Therefore Alister would be my answer.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Dean Paolucci

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Re:Lasting Influence
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2007, 07:06:24 PM »
Would Willie Park, Jr. (1864 - 1925) qualify.  He has been called the Grandfather of all Golden Era Architects.  His work influenced many of the so called great ones.  Additionally, he was a quadruple threat...Player, architect, club maker, and author.
"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."  --  Mark Twain

JMorgan

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Re:Lasting Influence New
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2007, 07:54:34 PM »
edito

« Last Edit: January 20, 2009, 05:10:08 AM by JMorgan »

Jeff_Mingay

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Re:Lasting Influence
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2007, 09:32:28 PM »
Mark,

If we're talking pre-1914, two names come immediately to mind: Harry Colt and C.B. Macdonald.

Colt's pre-World War I work in the heathlands is still a benchmark, nearly 100 years later; and, of course, there's the National Golf Links of America!  
jeffmingay.com

Phil McDade

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Re:Lasting Influence
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2007, 11:50:28 PM »
I'd say Ross, for this reason. He has been described as the supreme router of courses -- taking what the land offered, and getting the optimum usage of it for 18 compelling golf holes.

Then consider three notable modern designs -- Sand Hills, Pacific Dunes and Ballyneal. All have been described -- I think by their architects -- as routing challenges, and all are generally regarded as amongst the best modern designs.


RJ_Daley

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Re:Lasting Influence
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2007, 01:03:13 AM »
I'm leaning towards Colt as most influential archie.  Old Tom as most influential figure, with contribution of architecture.  

For volume and showing that it could be a booming business brought to the masses, Bendelow! ;D
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

TEPaul

Re:Lasting Influence
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2007, 07:24:20 AM »
"We've had many a discussion on who might have been the most influential architects in terms of how their innovations moved architecture forward.  But which of the golden age (let's say active before 1914) architects continues to influence today's architects and architecture the most?"

You know Mark, this is truly a most interesting question to consider.

Personally, I see the answer to that question, at least over here, changing quite a bit in the last decade or less.

Somewhat unbelievably to me it seems as if the architects and the style that has been having the most influence very recently on some of the modern architects may be Macdonald/Raynor and their totally unique "middle-era" style.

I recognize that the look and influence on the likes of C&C, Doak, Hanse, DeVries et al must be something else, perhaps some interpretation of a heathland style but even though that may be the case they all seem to be most interested in the architecture of Macdonald/Raynor. Then there's the Love Co that has termed their interest and style Rosnor----eg some combination of Ross and Raynor. Personally those two styles seem to me to be something of a contradiction in terms.

This is a most interesting question, though, because there is very little question that a huge number of architects today are now beginning to cast their eyes back in time to that Golden Age and it's just so interesting to see which architects and which styles from that early time they're looking at to reinterpret in what they do today.

One thing this says to me, though, Mark, is if golf architecture is ever going to get to some new and more comprehensive level of naturalism than it ever has before (if this is even possible) it will probably always be a very hard row to hoe.

And why is that? That to me is the real question. I think it must have something to do with either an almost complete imbuing of landscape architecture principles in golf architecture at this point or perhaps it's simply as fundamental as the necessary requirements of golf itself.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2007, 07:31:51 AM by TEPaul »

BCrosby

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Re:Lasting Influence
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2007, 08:06:25 AM »
My vote goes to H.S. Colt.

TEP -

Interesting ideas. What do you mean by the "unique" middle period style of MacD/Raynor?

Bob

Brad Tufts

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Re:Lasting Influence
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2007, 10:13:20 AM »
I'd love to say Ross, but in thinking more about it, the most important things about his design portfolio is the variety of land he worked on, the variety of style he demonstrated over his land and over his career, and the variety of clients and budgets he worked for, from ultra-private or estate courses down to the local muni.  His designs were more utilitarian than a MacKenzie or Tillinghast, and this, to me, was the biggest reason for his prolific numbers.

I don't know if you could point to AM or AWT, as I think their designs were another layer on top of the initial design efforts from say 1890-1900.

Maybe Old Tom Morris, as the first modern architect to show that building golf courses could be a business, and to provide the basis for changing wild land into man-managed wild land?
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re:Lasting Influence
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2007, 01:23:31 PM »
There's a musical analogy in that many composers of the last 50 years (or more) have in some way paid hommage to JS Bach.  They probably admire Mozart's genius and acknowledge the huge advances made by Beethoven in forms such as the symphony, string quartet and piano sonata, but they can write music in their own language modelled on Bach, but they couldn't do that with Mozart or Beethoven without being accused of writing pastiche.

TEPaul

Re:Lasting Influence
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2007, 02:05:11 PM »
Mark:

What is pastiche?

It sounds like it might be delicous as a couple of scoops of ice cream. Have you ever had ice cream that both tastes good and sounds good?

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re:Lasting Influence
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2007, 02:37:04 PM »
Pastiche is imitation of another's art or materials, and, while imitation may be the sincerest form of flattery, in music it is normally used derogatively.  

Ice cream that tastes as good as it sounds?  Proper vanilla and pistachio.  Two that are particularly delicious but sound unappetising are brown bread ice cream and Nesselrode pudding.  Recipes can be sent!

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