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Mike_Young

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Which is worse NCAA or USGA?
« on: January 10, 2007, 07:22:40 AM »
Afer reading this article with the concerns of Pres. Brand....
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/stories/2007/01/09/0110ncaa.html
I don't know.  
NCAA seems to be judge and jury......are they here for the longrun?
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JohnV

Re:Which is worse NCAA or USGA?
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2007, 08:20:21 AM »
As someone noted back when Paul Allen, the owner of the Portland Trailblazers, was trying to lure Coach K away from Duke, there is no salary cap for coaches.

There was a story on NPR this morning about Birmingham Southern, which had 110+ athletes on scholarship and only one other student receiving an academic scholarship from the school.  The board of trustees decided that was wrong, went from Division 1A to Division 3, thereby eliminating all athletic scholarships.  The donations from alumni went up.  The diversity of the freshman class went up with blacks going from 6% of the class to 14% this year.  And they even fielded a football team for the first time in their history.

The NCAA is a much bigger evil than the USGA.  The NCAA has so many ridiculous rules that nobody can keep up with them.  Probably every student athlete violates them without even knowing it.  For example, every golfer who plays in his or her state amateur and accepts a gift certificate if he plays well enough violates their rules.
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Bruce Katona

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Re:Which is worse NCAA or USGA?
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2007, 09:12:26 AM »
It depends upon the priority of the coach.....does Coach Paterno have a high success rate for graduation of his student athletes?....does Coach K have his players graduate?....do the Notre Dame or any Ivy League institution graduate the vast majority of their student athletes?....there is a very big difference in programs run for the student athlete versus the athlete factories.

And the USGA has done such a splendid job on protecting the game from technology?
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Bill Shamleffer

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Re:Which is worse NCAA or USGA?
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2007, 09:20:07 AM »
Tiger Woods does not appear to have ever had any problems with the USGA.  However, from what I have read, it does appear that one of the factors that resulted in Mr. Woods leaving college early were his clashes with the NCAA.
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BCrosby

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Re:Which is worse NCAA or USGA?
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2007, 09:26:52 AM »
Limitations on scholarships based on graduation rates will kick in over the next couple of years.

It will be interesting to see what happens. Apparently almost no major college b'ball program and most major f'ball programs - at least as of today - would escape some reduction in scholarships.

It's going to mean you better be careful about recruiting kids that might not graduate.

Bob
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Tiger_Bernhardt

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Re:Which is worse NCAA or USGA?
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2007, 09:29:06 AM »
Mike I think it is coin flip in many ways, but one the NCAA would win 7 out of 10 times. I feel our governoring boards have really underachieved over the last 30 years.
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Mike_Young

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Re:Which is worse NCAA or USGA?
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2007, 10:40:36 AM »
I think both Associations are judge and jury.....having gone before an NCAA investigation I can tell you it is pure show....there is no sworn testimony....and not much debate.....some schools are untouchables and they, NCAA,  try to make it a fine line between laws and rules....they present their trials in the press.....
If they come after coaches $$$$$ that will be the beginning of the end...

BUT...Tiger, Amex and USGA Amex?????  Who wins there when a copmpromise is needed?
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JSlonis

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Re:Which is worse NCAA or USGA?
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2007, 10:54:56 AM »
Quote from: Bill Shamleffer on January 10, 2007, 09:20:07 AM
Tiger Woods does not appear to have ever had any problems with the USGA.  However, from what I have read, it does appear that one of the factors that resulted in Mr. Woods leaving college early were his clashes with the NCAA.

I remember one of the more ridiculous stories while Tiger was attending Stanford, Arnold Palmer took him out to dinner once.  Apparently Arnie picked up the tab, and then the NCAA athletics police got involved and made Tiger send Arnie a check for half of the meal to avoid any NCAA violation.  That to me, is just beyond absurd!

The Supreme Court would have a tough time interpreting the rules and regs for a NCAA athlete.

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Mike_Young

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Re:Which is worse NCAA or USGA?
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2007, 11:15:58 AM »
NCAA  over 90% of their budget from March Madness....6 billion TV contract over 10 years.....they fly first class yet a 7 ft BB player has to take a coach seat.....
they would love to get a playoff system for FB.....
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Kalen Braley

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Re:Which is worse NCAA or USGA?
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2007, 12:50:38 PM »
The NCAA is the worst in my mind as well.  They run a racket.

As Mike said they make a killing from selling thier march madness TV rights and are living high off the hog without having to pay thier players 1 penny.  Its organized thuggery at its worst!

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Chris Cupit

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Re:Which is worse NCAA or USGA?
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2007, 06:35:49 PM »
NCAA--an absolut racket with little regard for so called "student-athletes".

USGA--misguided and wrong at times, but people who genuinely love the game.
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Glenn Spencer

Re:Which is worse NCAA or USGA?
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2007, 07:33:09 PM »
Quote from: Chris Cupit on January 10, 2007, 06:35:49 PM
NCAA--an absolut racket with little regard for so called "student-athletes".

USGA--misguided and wrong at times, but people who genuinely love the game.

Well Said!!!!
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ward peyronnin

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Re:Which is worse NCAA or USGA?
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2007, 11:51:54 PM »
I don't recall any USGA employee signing a $40 million salary contract or demanding $100 million plus venues be built  paid for by corporate boxes that are written off.

Hopefully Congress will recognize this as a profit making business and force these people to help combat the national debt as the rest of us tax paying citizens and businesses do and harvest some of this excess.

The argument that this supports education is pure bullshit. You can't regulate supply and demand but you can spread the benefit from it more equitably.
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"Golf is happiness. It's intoxication w/o the hangover; stimulation w/o the pills. It's price is high yet its rewards are richer. Some say its a boys pastime but it builds men. It cleanses the mind/rejuvenates the body. It is these things and many more for those of us who truly love it." M.Norman

TEPaul

Re:Which is worse NCAA or USGA?
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2007, 07:04:03 AM »
"BUT...Tiger, Amex and USGA Amex?????  Who wins there when a copmpromise is needed?"

Mike:

What do you mean by that?



Another question;

Do you think an amateur regional or amateur state golf association should allow a corporate title sponsor for their events?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2007, 07:07:13 AM by TEPaul »
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tlavin

Re:Which is worse NCAA or USGA?
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2007, 02:15:09 PM »
Quote from: Glenn Spencer on January 10, 2007, 07:33:09 PM
Quote from: Chris Cupit on January 10, 2007, 06:35:49 PM
NCAA--an absolut racket with little regard for so called "student-athletes".

USGA--misguided and wrong at times, but people who genuinely love the game.


Well Said!!!!

Ditto
« Last Edit: January 11, 2007, 02:15:36 PM by Terry Lavin »
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Steve Lapper

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Re:Which is worse NCAA or USGA?
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2007, 02:18:45 PM »
Quote from: Terry Lavin on January 11, 2007, 02:15:09 PM
Quote from: Glenn Spencer on January 10, 2007, 07:33:09 PM
Quote from: Chris Cupit on January 10, 2007, 06:35:49 PM
NCAA--an absolut racket with little regard for so called "student-athletes".

USGA--misguided and wrong at times, but people who genuinely love the game.


Well Said!!!!

Ditto


I'd most certainly add "without a spine" to both descriptions
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The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Mike_Young

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Re:Which is worse NCAA or USGA?
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2007, 09:12:13 PM »
Quote from: TEPaul on January 11, 2007, 07:04:03 AM
"BUT...Tiger, Amex and USGA Amex?????  Who wins there when a copmpromise is needed?"

Mike:

What do you mean by that?



Another question;

Do you think an amateur regional or amateur state golf association should allow a corporate title sponsor for their events?
TE,
Since Tiger is sponsored by Amex and USGA has Amex as a sponsor what if say.....Tiger gets preferential TV time during a US Open even if way back or say he doesn't want to play in a USGA event yet gets a slight nudge.....and it can go on and on.....
I think no Golf associations should have title sponsors.....some things are to be neutral....
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Chris Cupit

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Re:Which is worse NCAA or USGA?
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2007, 11:13:08 PM »
Mike,

What USGA event would Tiger not want to play in?  
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Dave_Miller

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Re:Which is worse NCAA or USGA?
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2007, 03:06:44 PM »
Quote from: Mike_Young on January 11, 2007, 09:12:13 PM
Quote from: TEPaul on January 11, 2007, 07:04:03 AM
"BUT...Tiger, Amex and USGA Amex?????  Who wins there when a copmpromise is needed?"

Mike:

What do you mean by that?



Another question;

Do you think an amateur regional or amateur state golf association should allow a corporate title sponsor for their events?
TE,
Since Tiger is sponsored by Amex and USGA has Amex as a sponsor what if say.....Tiger gets preferential TV time during a US Open even if way back or say he doesn't want to play in a USGA event yet gets a slight nudge.....and it can go on and on.....
I think no Golf associations should have title sponsors.....some things are to be neutral....

Mike:
The only USGA event Tiger can play in is the Open.  I don't think he is going to skip this.  Seems like he has always been getting preferential TV time.  
Best
Dave
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Mike_Young

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Re:Which is worse NCAA or USGA?
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2007, 03:27:14 PM »
Quote from: Chris Cupit on January 11, 2007, 11:13:08 PM
Mike,

What USGA event would Tiger not want to play in?  
I don't know...
I just think it is bad for USGA to have a sponsor....what if the Auto Union took Ford as a sponsor.....The Auto Union is supposed to be nuetral to all the auto manufacturers.....I think USGA should present the same image....
I appreciate and realize the necessity of the USGA but I think sometimes they go past their usefulness......
such as with the green section.....
Anyway......I am sure there are instances where being sponsored will put them in a situation...I was just using Tiger as an example....
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