[Doug Sobieski]

Mike,

How is Tom's logic so flawed?

The logic is spot on. The math is a bit off (by an order of magnitude). 3,000,000 is 1% of 300,000,000.

[Mike_Cirba]

As for quirk, it sure characterizes the steeply downhill 3rd hole.  It is 77 yards today and was 115 yards in Flynn's plan.  Does that mean it was a completely blind shot?  I'm not sure.

Wayne, thanks for the info. I'm guessing that 115 yards would have put the teeing ground where the road is today. In my mind's eye that would have meant a completely blind shot into the abyss, and an utterly terrifying one at that.

Jeff/Wayne,

I think you fellows are referring to the 77yard 7th, not the 3rd (which is one of the original non-Flynn holes and is a doozy in its own right).  

I believe the original tee for 7 was over a bit to the left of today's tee, if memory serves.

[RJ_Daley]

Well, if TD keeps this up, we may see him design the first 75,000 yard golf course, with Tiger Woods as the consulting pro....  

[JESII]

Mike,

How is Tom's logic so flawed?

The logic is spot on. The math is a bit off (by an order of magnitude). 3,000,000 is 1% of 300,000,000.

Got it...and math used to be all I could do, never been able to read...

[john_stiles]

Estimating a quantity is sometimes tough since some math is involved.  

1/10 of 1 percent might be possible.

If you think of the dearly departed, maybe  RTJones would be the most recognized since he had a great number of courses in the US and worked in the era of TV golf.

On the other hand, Alister Mackenzie might be most recognized given the annual acknowledgement upon the Masters TV broadcasts since 1956.  The Masters having been one major tournament at one course, along being a most desireable sports ticket anywhere, gives another edge to AM.

Which has sold more, Klein's recent biography on Ross or Doak's on Mackenzie ?

Or if the thread keeps going, maybe Hugh Wilson will be more recognized.

[Doug Ralston]

Not as many as know who Floyd Collins is, I betcha.

Doug

[Kyle Harris]

I think Michael Crichton made a very telling statement re: general culture's view of a golf architect in Jurassic Park.

"Muldoon is to zoos as Robert Trent Jones is to golf courses."

Just that a fiction author could make that fictional analogy, to me, is telling of RTJ's popularity.

[Jason McNamara]

There are 400 Ross courses.  Let's say for argument's sake that each of them has 250 members, plus 250 wives and maybe 250 children, and that all of those people have heard of Ross.  That's 300,000 people right there, or 1% of the population.

How many members at Ross courses don't know who Ross is?  

(Edit:  I don't mean that as a snark.  How many have joined a Ross club for entirely different reasons, and without knowing who he is?)

[Tom_Doak]

Thanks for pointing out my math error, gentlemen.  Now we know for SURE that it's a good thing I got into golf course design instead of staying at M.I.T.  You wouldn't want me making such a gross error while designing a dam or a nuclear reactor or a spaceship.

Jason:  I'm sure in the old days, most of the members of Ross courses had no idea that Ross had done their course.  With the advent of the Ross society, and many architects looking for "restoration" work, I think the situation has changed today.  Not everyone joins for the label, but most people who belong now know the name, at least.

[Mike Benham]

More people know who Ross is on Friends then know Donald Ross the architect.

However, if we did a blue and red states model, then the western US would be red (or is it blue?)

[Mark_Fine]

Jeff,
Wayne knows because I talked to him about it early on, but Robert McNeil and I will be doing a restoration of the East Course at Pocono Manor (hopefully starting sometime this spring/summer).  The loss of the slots at Pocono Manor delayed the project.  When finished, it will be a combination Ross/Flynn design.  The distinction between the different holes is readily apparent.  It will offer the resort a unique marketing twist and most importantly, a dramatically improved golf course when finished.  

Mike,
You are correct about the short par three they are referring to.  #3 is not one of the Flynn holes.  I don't have time to elaborate here about all the holes.  Once we get things underway I will make a post.

Mark

[Gary Slatter]

1% would be a good guess. I would think maybe 20% of the people who can score less than a 100 might know that Donald Ross designed golf courses.
When Bob Cupp did some work at Rosedale Golf Club in the 1990s I was playing there about a month after the work was finished. The 3 members I was playing with told me that Donald Ross had done the work, they had been playing there for 30 years.
When Mad River (Bob Cupp) opened one of the members introduced me (the pro) as the designer of the course.
Sometimes we give golfers too much credit, and we expect the same people to stand on a tee and figure out the best way to play a hole!

[Mike_Young]

If and I say if there really are 24 million golfers and say 25% of thse have heard of Ross that would be 6 million people out of 300 million...so maybe 2% at the very best.
And that is today....a few years back it would have been much less.....

[Dan Moore]

The only thing my kids know about Donald Ross is that their dad has a very nice looking book about him that has been on the living room table for several months.  They will soon know about the Evangelist of Golf.  

Because of the US Open and Pinehurst I think most serious golfers know Donald Ross.  

[Bill_McBride]

Thanks for pointing out my math error, gentlemen.  Now we know for SURE that it's a good thing I got into golf course design instead of staying at M.I.T.  You wouldn't want me making such a gross error while designing a dam or a nuclear reactor or a spaceship.

You might have been off a decimal point, but you said it with authority!  

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