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Adrian_Stiff

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Re:How bad can this weather be for golf courses???
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2007, 11:25:01 AM »
Its rained here in the south west of England pretty much every day for two months, most inland courses are waterlogged. Yesterday (sunday) we had 27 people play. Normal is 120.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Kirk Gill

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Re:How bad can this weather be for golf courses???
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2007, 11:31:47 AM »
Since there's been a lot of anecdotal evidence for global warming mentioned, here's some anecdotal evidence against it. The three feet of snow in my yard in the Denver suburbs. More snow anticipated later this week. Most unusual.
"After all, we're not communists."
                             -Don Barzini

RJ_Daley

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Re:How bad can this weather be for golf courses???
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2007, 11:59:20 AM »
Daryl, you are very persuasive and authoritative.  I appreciate that.  I of course am no scientist.  I am however one of the rest of us all who like that guy Joe, in that song says;  "I don't know where I'm a gonna go when the vulcano blows". ;) ;D ::)

I hope all you folks who claim to know the actual scientific causes, and are advocating based on political bias or POV from industry or special economic sectors with a dog in the fight, get this figured out soon for the next generations sake.  

And BTW Daryl, it is fun to watch all the Republican Bush apologists get all bent out of shape and upset when we tin foil hat folks take shots at blaming the ongoing messes exclusively on the admin you folks installed.  While I am certain the origins of our real problems transverse party lines, this last six+ years has been a real boner fest of incompetent governance.  So it is really easy to take shots, because they have provided all the ammunition.   ::)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How bad can this weather be for golf courses???
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2007, 12:02:44 PM »
Kirk, all your snow is a good thing for those folks down range.  They say we will need multiple years of the mountain areas getting heavier than normal snow fall to melt down and replenish and recharge the aquafer and reservoirs like Lake MacConeghy in NE.  
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Dan Kelly

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Re:How bad can this weather be for golf courses???
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2007, 12:15:23 PM »
I think that if you review his statements over the past year and a half, even Bush no longer disputes climate change.  He DOES dispute the reasons, of course, as well as what to do about it.

A.G._C --

With due respect to both sides of this debate:

I really don't think President Bush (or many other politicians) is qualified to be authoritative on either side of the argument.

Though perhaps I'm wrong! See http://www.theonion.com/content/node/38718.
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Tiger_Bernhardt

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Re:How bad can this weather be for golf courses???
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2007, 12:20:52 PM »
Daryl, you make your case well. But I do not feel the evidence is as you present it nor do I feel the science of global warming is one sided or agenda driven. We all know climate change is a very complex topic, but in my mind there is no question the industrial development of the last one hundred years is a major contributor to it. We have a very significant subsidence problem here on the gulf coast. The land is sinking at a rate of 1/4 inch a year or more in some places now. The contributions of the oil and gas industry and the Corp of Engineers which oversee and approve all canals, dredging and development are generally left out of the discussion.  Much like global warming, when a study indicates they did contribute to the problem the same elements which scof at global warming mock them and make jokes of their work till they go away. The Oil and Gas Industry is the largest contributor and the Corp approves their contribution on a case by case basis as well as providing much of the data. It is too bad so much of our research comes from industry or government studies funded by those same economic interests/industries. The bush administration will go down in history for their misdeeds in this as well as so many other areas. Mark is on the money in a funny yet sad way.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2007, 12:21:31 PM by Tiger_Bernhardt »

Gary_Mahanay

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Re:How bad can this weather be for golf courses???
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2007, 12:21:55 PM »
RJ,

Is that where the water in the Ogallala aquifer comes from?  Does Wild Horse irrigate out of the river or do they use wells to the aquifer?

Gary

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How bad can this weather be for golf courses???
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2007, 12:33:36 PM »
Gary, the water for Wild Horse is from the aquafer, and is obtained with a well and gas-turbine pumps that are typically used for pivots.  Same system up at Sand Hills.  I assume same with Dismal River Club.  But, I think I heard that Bally is on a 3-phase power pump.  

The lake is a reservoir for a series of irrigation canals that run all through mid and south NE for ag and Sutherland Powerplant purposes.  There is a moritorium for several years on any new high capacity wells out there because the mid-plains aquifer is so low.  The power plant that used the lake reservoir water had to sink 250 high cap wells in the surrounding area to meet its cooling needs because the lake is down some 100+ feet.  So, they can't allow more high cap wells to draw the aquafer down even more critically low.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How bad can this weather be for golf courses???
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2007, 03:36:49 PM »
Mike Young,

You probably know more about this stuff than 99.9% of the people here.  What supts and plant "experts" have told me regarding this topic is that the length of the warming period, the amount of moisture, and the severity of the subsequent cold spell are intertwined.  Several days of warm, dry weather followed by frigid temperatures and wind can cause great damage.  Re: insects, without a few really hard freezes, they come back in the spring like gangbusters.

Dick and Tiger,

You guys are relentless.  After participating in the six- year long "Bush is the Worst President Ever" campaign every chance you get, aren't you guys just getting a bit tired of it?

BTW, why didn't your boys Clinton and Gore at least try to get Kyoto ratified?  For the same reason why Clinton waited unitl the last days of his administration to sign an executive order making the "safe" level of mercury in water drastically more stringent?  If these policies were so beneficial, wouldn't getting them in the books in 1998 not been better than in 2000 or at a later time?  Do you think perhaps that it was done to create havoc and embarrass the new administration?

Most of us agree that climate change is taking place and that it raises some serious concerns (though the upsides such as in plant and food production are seldom discussed) .  Many of us believe that climate change has been taking place since the beginning of time for a variety of reasons.  Some of us think that man has a relatively small impact on the problem, with solar activity and several other aforementioned natural factors beyond our control largely responsible for what we are experiencing.

I know our socialist friends do not like or perhaps understand cost/benefit analysis or any attempt to measure and quantify results apart from intentions.  We've pretty much destroyed industries and people's lives in some regions in the name of environmentalism (talk to some of the townspeople in Bandon and the Pacific NW who are now making a living toting golf bags and in other low-paying service jobs).

As to scientific evidence, it really comes down to what we see with expert testimony in court proceedings or congressional hearings.  It is readily bought, prone to manipulation and interpretation to suit political needs, and not black and white enough or easy to understand for the average person to grasp.  

Mike V points to the warming in Mars.  Perhaps there is an underground capitalist economy operating there.  Closer to home, I am told that centuries ago, the Vikings found Greenland to be quite green and agricultural (dummy me, and I thought that someone with a sardonic sense of humor came up with that name).  The horror: it is turning green again.  Maybe it was due to excessive animal flatulence drifting from elsewhere or perhaps the Martians dumped a major load of their excess CO2 on Earth a few decades prior to the Vilkings' arrival.

Or could it be that today as then, we are going through a natural secular cycle and there is little that we can do to forestall these forces?  Is so, what would Algore and so many others have to live for?  What other scabs might they find in a classical liberal society organized around  a market based economy that they could pick in their pursuit of cosmic justice and personal fullfilment?  

By the way, based on what I was taught by these learned folks in college back in the 1970s, the world should have come to an end by now due to overpopulation, famine, and disease.  We're living on borrowed time.  I better schedule a week at the Lodge at Pebble Beach and get a few good rounds in before it's too late.  Do they take Mastercharge?  Can anyone here get me on at Cypress Point?  I suppose that since I don't have to worry about the future, I can just hop the fence.    

     

 

Jason McNamara

Re:How bad can this weather be for golf courses???
« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2007, 03:53:58 PM »
Why do the USA not just sign up to Kotyo?

The US Senate (which ratifies treaties) voted 95-0 to NOT approve Kyoto (or any similar treaty), in considerable part because Kyoto had no limitations whatsoever for China, India, etc.

That's the abridged version, anyway.

Joe Perches

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How bad can this weather be for golf courses???
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2007, 04:01:44 PM »
the Global Warming/Climate Change industry [] is strictly anti-capitalism.

Beg to differ.  I believe the Kyoto Protocol carbon trading mechanisms are as capitalistic as possible.  It's not particularly different than the market for pork bellies, though the carbon trading markets will and do have significant startup inappropriateness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_emissions_trading
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/independent_reviews/stern_review_economics_climate_change/sternreview_index.cfm

Can we get back to how great or not great the weather is for golf now please?
« Last Edit: January 08, 2007, 04:02:49 PM by Joe Perches »

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How bad can this weather be for golf courses???
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2007, 04:12:54 PM »
Tempature recording has been a very very recent trend in science when compared with the age of the planet.  These records only go back 150 years at best, and the earth is said to be 4.5 billion years old.  I know they use techinques in the artic to drill ice to get approx tempature ranges, but even then it only goes back tens of thousands of years which is still a mere pittance.

The reality is we have no clue what the latest trends in the weather mean.  Sure its warmer now than it was 25 years ago but once again how can we even pretend to start saying whats causing the tempature increase without being able to look at the other 4.5 billion years of evidence.  Did the dinasours have massive amounts of faltuance to bring us out of the last ice age?

Is the earth really warming? I don't think any honest person can even pretend to have an answer to this, its all speculation at best.  What caused the ice age to happen, and then its decline?  Last time I checked that happened far sooner than the Industrial Revolution. I think quacks like Al Gore is just using pseudo-science to line his own pockets.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2007, 04:15:14 PM by Kalen Braley »

Michael Christensen

Re:How bad can this weather be for golf courses???
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2007, 04:20:55 PM »
I have one question for the "Global Warming" backers:  why are the snowcaps on Mars melting?  Is it due to our Hummers here in the USA??

El Nino is the cause for this mild winter here in North America (talked with a senior scientist for the EPA this weekend)....ask Pakistan and others about their mild winter??  They have set records for cold in the last week.


Chris Cupit

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How bad can this weather be for golf courses???
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2007, 04:34:56 PM »
Why do the USA not just sign up to Kotyo?

Matthew,

Currently neither the US nor Australia have ratified the treaty.  Also, while China and India have signed the treaty they are exempt from the carbon emission goals and I know this is an issue for both the US and Australia.

Even Al Gore in 1998 opposed ratification as long as developing nations, China and India were exempt from carbon emission reduction goals!  BTW, while the US is the biggest carbon polluter in the world today, by 2030 China will far and away be the biggest polluter in the world.

There is plenty of detailed reading available on the Kyoto Protocol  that a google search should help you find in no time.

JR Potts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How bad can this weather be for golf courses???
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2007, 04:37:04 PM »
I played golf on December 29th, December 30th and January 4th here in Chicago.  I would vote against any immigation reforms due to El Nino and his positive effect on my rounds per year.

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How bad can this weather be for golf courses???
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2007, 04:40:40 PM »
Holy Toledo!  Several skeptical replies to the PC dogma: man is evil;  capitalism, greed, and consumption will be the end of us all; only a socialist government of our betters can save us from ourselves. This site is going to shit.  Ran, why so many Newbies?  I thought the site was being more discerning and exclusive.  Next someone is going to suggest that the Dollar and not the Euro is the currency of consequence in the world.  This drivel must stop.  We must all unite to stop BS and CO2.

Mike_Cirba

Re:How bad can this weather be for golf courses???
« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2007, 04:45:56 PM »
I agree about El Nino being responsible for what we're seeing this year.   When I heard that it was going to be an El Nino year I was very pleased, because from experience, I knew that meant a very mild winter in the Northeast (although the west coast tends to get inundated with rain).  

Saturday morning I walked outside and it was about 65 degrees an hour north of Philadelphia.  With outstretched arms I proclaimed to the world, "I Love Global Warming!"  ;D

Still, it really is Bush's fault because if he did have the chance to hose our planetary climate, I'm sure he would have managed to bungle that, as well.  So, don't get too ecstatic yet, Lou.  ;)

Mike Vegis @ Kiawah

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How bad can this weather be for golf courses???
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2007, 05:03:13 PM »
Better yet, El Nino keeps those hurricanes away from my Lowcountry home and my employer!!! ;D

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How bad can this weather be for golf courses???
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2007, 05:42:31 PM »
With Cirba piping in, the world (and this site) is restored to its natural order.  Now all we need is for Dr. Childs to leave us with some concluding comments.

BTW, it is fully in keeping with contemporary critical thinking that Bush should get blamed for things he couldn't have caused based simply on the inarguable stipulation that had he had the opportunity to make an impact, he would have screwed it up.  This accepted and no doubt peer reviewed "given" first occured to me some three years ago while listening to a "professional" Democrat operative go on and on about how Bush screwed up the shrimp harvest off the coast of Louisiana.  The best I could tell, it was nothing in particular that Bush did, but more to do with some things that've been going on in the state for years that members in the Bush administration refused to get involved in to change.  Of course, this fine gentleman did not find it curious or relevant that the state has been heavily controlled by the Dems since the beginning of time.

When the many wealthy prophets of doom fly around the world in private jets, are driven by limos from their multiple large residences, and otherwsie lead a superbly rich, upscale, consumptive lifestyle, does it not occur to them that their indiividual contribution to "the problem" is exponential relative to that by the rest of us?  Do they believe that their s--t does not stink?  Or maybe they know that the emperor is really butt-naked but think that the rest of us are too damn dumb to know otherwise.  After all, we've been taught by such giants of the Left as Che that the means are totally justified by the ends.  What's wrong with a little of hyperbole or outright falsehood if the aims are so noble (the sake of the children, the poor, the crippled, and the otherwise disenfranchised; equality of outcome; social justice; world peace; etc.).      

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How bad can this weather be for golf courses???
« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2007, 05:56:31 PM »
Or maybe they know that the emperor is really butt-naked ...

I thought he was buck-naked -- but only the Empress (and maybe Al Gore) could tell us for sure!  :o
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Willie_Dow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How bad can this weather be for golf courses???
« Reply #45 on: January 08, 2007, 06:06:57 PM »
Well said, Lou !

My efforts to reclaim land taken from our little nine hole course by the 1938 hurricane is a good example of the great shoreline that still exists, and the tide just comes in and goes out as it did as I grew up on the bay.

There is little change to the actual shore line except there are no homes there, and no activity that would cause that change.

Unless we get a better understanding of what really goes on in our oceans, and have a explanation of the sliding or subducting under the North American plate, which is moving southeast, while the Pacific plate moves northwest, our efforts to explain this to environmentalists is limited.

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How bad can this weather be for golf courses???
« Reply #46 on: January 08, 2007, 08:05:39 PM »
Dan,

You're the wordsmith and master of the language and its use.   Of course I defer to you.  Buck-naked it is.  Thanks.

Sean,

I am not acquainted with your reference to the "Double Dutch".  You are correct about my continuing support of President Bush, and though I too did not support the war (but probably for reasons totally different than yours), I don't believe for a second that he lied about the reasons for going in.  I have no desire to defend the president here as
most minds were largely made up six years ago and earlier.

Of course, none of this has anything to do with the issue of global warming and the effective options at our disposal to minimize the negative consequences.  I know that Kyoto is a political farce and the Chicken Little mentality shouldn't be appeased on the back of our workers and consumers.

It is now time to see "my" Buckeyes beat on Florida.   Sean, I am assuming that you will be true to your Big Ten roots.  

David_Madison

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How bad can this weather be for golf courses???
« Reply #47 on: January 08, 2007, 09:23:40 PM »
Isn't it true that back in the 70's it was common "wisdom" that the same greenhouse gasses now attributed for causing GW were rapidly bringing on the next Ice Age?

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How bad can this weather be for golf courses???
« Reply #48 on: January 08, 2007, 09:43:19 PM »
Isn't it true that back in the 70's it was common "wisdom" that the same greenhouse gasses now attributed for causing GW were rapidly bringing on the next Ice Age?

Cf. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15391426/site/newsweek/
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

David_Madison

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How bad can this weather be for golf courses???
« Reply #49 on: January 08, 2007, 10:17:43 PM »
Dan- That article makes me dizzy from all the spinning. If ever there was a self-serving article, that was it. Maybe there's some factual reality there, but I can't help but believe that it was written as a CYA rather than to add anything new to the discussion. I haven't made up my mind on the bigger GW issue, but it's really hard to do so when there are so many apparently well-qualified yet vested interests pushing their point under the guise of scientific fact.

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