News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.

Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down

Jordan Wall

Why aren't more holes Like Kapalua #6
« on: January 05, 2007, 01:06:57 PM »
Kapalua 6 is a great hole.

An approach from 180 yards to a putt is possible.

A big, great bunker in the middle of the fairway dictates the drive.

The green is great and seperated by a huge ridge in the middle.
So, though driving the green is an option, being on the wrong side of the green or hole in 1 isn't always as good as being 150 out.

It's just a great hole.

Why aren't more holes created like this?
Logged

Tom Huckaby

Re:Why aren't more holes Like Kapalua #6
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2007, 01:13:28 PM »
Is it a great golf hole?  Absolutely.  Strategic to max, fun to the max.

Why aren't there more like it?

Well, there aren't many landforms that start out flat then tumble down a 50+ foot hill... not to mention have the Pacific Ocean off in the distance and the other more subtle contours this hole has....

Methinks it's rather unique.   ;)
Logged

rjsimper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why aren't more holes Like Kapalua #6
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2007, 01:14:56 PM »
Quote from: Jordan Wall on January 05, 2007, 01:06:57 PM
Why aren't more holes created like this?

Because holes like this, with the features that really make the hole, are found and not created.
Logged

tlavin

Re:Why aren't more holes Like Kapalua #6
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2007, 01:17:28 PM »
Designed by the deity, not Coore and Crenshaw.
Logged

Tom Huckaby

Re:Why aren't more holes Like Kapalua #6
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2007, 01:18:22 PM »
And of course Ryan's point (and Terry's) are spot on.  Hard to believe also this hole could be replicated, even if one had the gall to try.

TH
« Last Edit: January 05, 2007, 01:18:46 PM by Tom Huckaby »
Logged

Jordan Wall

Re:Why aren't more holes Like Kapalua #6
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2007, 01:23:20 PM »
Just wondering, would this hole classify as a short par-4, though it is 365 yards?
Logged

Tom Huckaby

Re:Why aren't more holes Like Kapalua #6
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2007, 01:24:18 PM »
Quote from: Jordan Wall on January 05, 2007, 01:23:20 PM
Just wondering, would this hole classify as a short par-4, though it is 365 yards?

What else would you call it - ultralong par 3?   ;)
Logged

Jordan Wall

Re:Why aren't more holes Like Kapalua #6
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2007, 01:27:32 PM »
Considering you could have a somewhat long approach to the green for mortals (regular golfers) it could be classified as medium length, right?

Especially into the wind..

I dunno, I was just curious.
Logged

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why aren't more holes Like Kapalua #6
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2007, 01:34:00 PM »
Blind Tee shot.  Note aiming pole for going for green:


Approach from left of fairway bunker.  Anything short of this is blind:


From green looking back up fairway:
« Last Edit: January 05, 2007, 01:43:07 PM by Scott_Burroughs »
Logged

Eric Franzen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why aren't more holes Like Kapalua #6
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2007, 01:47:17 PM »
Quote from: Tom Huckaby on January 05, 2007, 01:24:18 PM
Quote from: Jordan Wall on January 05, 2007, 01:23:20 PM
Just wondering, would this hole classify as a short par-4, though it is 365 yards?

What else would you call it - ultralong par 3?   ;)

An inverted alps?  ;)
Logged

Tom Huckaby

Re:Why aren't more holes Like Kapalua #6
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2007, 01:55:37 PM »
Awesome pics!

And I like Eric's classification - this is the world standard for the new template Inverted Alps hole.   ;D

Seriously though in terms of length, oh yes the wind will change everything.  Into the wind that is not a short golf hole.  But sans wind and for sure with a helper, it is really really short... as the pros prove as they drive the green.

TH
Logged

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why aren't more holes Like Kapalua #6
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2007, 02:00:57 PM »
I'm not a great fan of televised PGA Tour golf. But I was glued to the TV last night watching golf from Kapalua, where the wind was blowing!
Logged
jeffmingay.com

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why aren't more holes Like Kapalua #6
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2007, 02:07:11 PM »
I have seen several downhill holes built with receptive greens - that slope from back to front - they look like ski jumps.
I think how bad this one would look with a green like that - part of why these holes are rare.
Logged
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Tom Huckaby

Re:Why aren't more holes Like Kapalua #6
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2007, 02:12:12 PM »
Quote from: Mike Nuzzo on January 05, 2007, 02:07:11 PM
I have seen several downhill holes built with receptive greens - that slope from back to front - they look like ski jumps.

I had to think about that image for a second... but that captures it perfectly!  Down then up... and it is stupid.

Which of course is part of what makes this hole so great - no ski jump it be.

Yoda Tom

ps - Jeff - concur - Kapalua in the wind does make for darn good TV viewing.
Logged

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why aren't more holes Like Kapalua #6
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2007, 02:13:29 PM »
Quote from: Scott_Burroughs on January 05, 2007, 01:34:00 PM
From green looking back up fairway:


This picture looks like a "capture" (is that the right term) from some computer golf game!
Logged
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Tom Huckaby

Re:Why aren't more holes Like Kapalua #6
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2007, 02:18:06 PM »
Dan - you're right!  It does look kinda unreal... too perfect, too fine lines... and too weird!

But that is the golf hole...
Logged

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why aren't more holes Like Kapalua #6
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2007, 02:21:09 PM »
I haven't played Kapalua, but I've played plenty of courses on hilly terraine, and I've got to say that the concept of #6 does not seem that difficult to replicate on the right piece of land -- and Maui is not the only landform in the world where such can be found.

I think architects are more likely to use steep drop-offs like the one behind this green for a drop-shot par 3, rather than risk the wrath of golfers who overshoot this green as a par 4 and lose their ball in the jungle. Personally, I'd love to see more holes like this, and I think almost anywhere you find hills (or mountains), you could do it -- presuming you could convince the course owner to go along with the idea.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2007, 02:22:30 PM by Rick Shefchik »
Logged
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

ChipRoyce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why aren't more holes Like Kapalua #6
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2007, 02:21:29 PM »
C&C have a habit of designing holes like this.

There's a hole on the Crenshaw course at Barton Creek that's somewhat similar - no blind shot, but someone taking a poke with the driver has a chance to drive the green, but severly penalizes a miss long as well as right of the greenside bunkers.
Logged

Tom Huckaby

Re:Why aren't more holes Like Kapalua #6
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2007, 02:25:49 PM »
Rick:

I dunno... I've played lots of hilly courses and I've seen few places that replicate 6 Kapalua.. that is with the exact amount of temptation to try and crest the hill... the exact amount of flattish land before the downhill... not to mention the rolling downhill with internal side to side contours... seems pretty unique to me.

In any case you're right, the drop-off behind is semi-controversial as well, and would take guts to do.

It works very well at Kapalua.

TH
Logged

JohnV

Re:Why aren't more holes Like Kapalua #6
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2007, 02:26:47 PM »
While #1 and #10 at Oakmont are longer and don't have the width of #6 at Kapalua (or #12 for that matter), they are also holes where the architect went with the land and left us a steeply downhill par 4 second shot to a fall-away green.  #10 doesn't have the blind second for the shorter hitter, but #1 definitely does.
Logged

Tom Huckaby

Re:Why aren't more holes Like Kapalua #6
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2007, 02:28:45 PM »
Quote from: John Vander Borght on January 05, 2007, 02:26:47 PM
While #1 and #10 at Oakmont are longer and don't have the width of #6 at Kapalua (or #12 for that matter), they are also holes where the architect went with the land and left us a steeply downhill par 4 second shot to a fall-away green.  #10 doesn't have the blind second for the shorter hitter, but #1 definitely does.

But are either of those reachable off the tee in any conditions?  Do they offer the temptation to try, with an awful central bunker to avoid?

The temptation is what makes the Kapalua hole unique to me.  Simple layup v. ripping a driver and trying to reach the green, knowing also that the wrong line means death even if you do have the distance....

TH
Logged

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why aren't more holes Like Kapalua #6
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2007, 02:29:37 PM »
Tom -- Come on out to Minnesota sometime and I'll show you several sites where #6 could have been nearly duplicated. Some are on bad courses, and none have Maui's weather, but you can't have everything... ;D
Logged
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Tom Huckaby

Re:Why aren't more holes Like Kapalua #6
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2007, 02:36:17 PM »
We have quite a few hills and mountains in CA, you know.  We also have something at least approaching Maui weather.  ;)

And I'm here to say I haven't seen many, if any, landforms on which this hole could be replicated. If Minnesota has such, it must be something.

BUT... methinks we are thinking of this differently.   The jungle to the sides is part of my thinking, as is the ocean in the distance... and the internal humps and hollows in the golf hole.

If you have that in MN, then I need to get there even sooner than I already know I need to.

 ;D
Logged

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Why aren't more holes Like Kapalua #6
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2007, 02:39:02 PM »
No ocean, obviously, and you couldn't call the underbrush here "jungle," but the effect is about the same. The mosquitos might even be bigger.
Logged
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Tom Huckaby

Re:Why aren't more holes Like Kapalua #6
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2007, 02:40:50 PM »
Hmmmmm.... well that is something.  I've seen very few landforms anywhere that duplicate this - straight out, then falling off, perfect temptation distance, firm conditions allowing for roll.  I guess I do need to get to MN!

I just thought of one that's kinda like this though - #8 Royal Dornoch.  In fact that might be where C&C got the inspiration for this hole....

So perhaps it's not all that unique.  Damn.   ;)

« Last Edit: January 05, 2007, 02:43:16 PM by Tom Huckaby »
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up