[Steve Pieracci]

I am not totally surprised that the tree was bigger in the old days.  A tree actually in the middle of a fairway is subjected to all kinds of pressures ... mowing over its roots, fertilizer and chemical applications around it, ball abuse ... that it is bound to be unhealthy.

I also understand all the various reasons why, sooner or later, building around a tree is a bad idea.

But what about sooner?  If the tree is going to transform a hole for twenty years before it dies, why not enjoy its twenty good years and THEN solve the problem with bunkering?

I always think about that big elm on the tenth hole at Winged Foot East.  My life would be something less if Mr. Tillinghast had cut it down when he built the place.

However, generally speaking, I would rather let a specimen tree defend one side of a golf hole, instead of leaving it right in the middle of all the traffic.

Tom,
What about the vertical impediments the tree creates?  A bunker IMHO is easier to negotiate.

 

[John Kirk]

The 9th hole at Plumas Lake G&CC near Marysville, California, is about 350 yards, and has several live oaks in the middle of the fairway.  It was kind of a crapshoot whether or not you would be blocked.  Not a terribly difficult hole, though.

Plumas Lake used to be famous for having nice, smooth (albeit rather flat) greens.

[Bill_McBride]

How about #5 at Tokatee in Oregon?  These are the famous "goal post trees" from the right side of the fairway.  The center line of the straight hole runs directly between those trees, with not a huge gap!



Here's an aerial view from behind:


                                            Yikes!     ^^^ This one ^^^

And the stroke saver view:

[Jon Spaulding]

Jon,

I don't think that's right.  I believe that tree, about 175 yards from the center of the green in the right rough, is still there.

That tree is definitely in the rough, no where near the center of the fairway.  I've never felt it is in play, as the preferred angle into #16 is from the far left side of the fairway.

So would this be #15 MacKenzie is playing?  Something isn't connecting, maybe it's the absence of trees.

I'm likely on crack. Hazy recollection is some fairway to the right of the tree and the tree was very in play on the tee shot for people unable to draw the ball (like me).

[Jeff Doerr]

The tree at Stanford is in a great strategic spot depending on your tee choice. As I recall it put pressure on a solid tee ball. The placement is such that if you hit a strong ball it effectively took the tree out of play unless the "gods" chose to place you directly behind it. I always loved drving on that hole as the tree was like a well known adversary upon each arrival to the tee.

[Kevin_Reilly]

This hole at Roddy Ranch has a tree that is a target off the tee...I forget the hole number...maybe the 9th?

[Kevin_Reilly]

Watching a 1995 Shell's WWOG tonight brought to mind another example... the 18th at PBG(n)L.  Not truly in the center of the fairway, but in play nevertheless.

Watson hit his 3 wood to the right of the tree, and Nicklaus hit his (persimmon) 3 wood to the left.  Both hit long irons (Nicklaus a 3 and Watson a 4) to leave 110 yd approaches.

[AndrewB]

This hole at Roddy Ranch has a tree that is a target off the tee...I forget the hole number...maybe the 9th?

Yes, that's the ninth.  The hole is a dogleg left and the tree sits directly in the middle of the fairway from the angle one sees from the tee, but all the fairway past the bunker is completely blind.  The ideal drive is a draw around or over the bunker well left of the tree since that cuts the corner and shortens the second shot considerably.  There's a hazard left of the fairway, though, so the bail out is directly at the tree.  I've played the hole three times and I've seen a number of the people I played with block it directly at the tree, but I never saw anyone have it interfere with their second shot into the green at all; the ball always seems to stop short.

I think the more interesting obstacle is the downslope coming off the bunker that kicks balls back to the right and middle of the fairway.  You really need to take an aggressive line or hit a draw that will counter the affects of this slope to end up in the ideal position.

[Matt_Cohn]

Kevin,

You're right, that's the 9th at Roddy Ranch. The tee is way off to the left of the picture - it's a very sharp dogleg left.

That's a tree that's probably more penal than strategic: there's no way somebody will aim right of it from the tee, but it can give you trouble if you miss your teeshot in that direction.

Wouldn't it make for an interesting hole if the tee were at the spot from which this photo is taken?

[Sébastien Dhaussy]

9th at the K Club “the eye of the needle” (par 4 – 461 yards for the Ryder Cup) on the Palmer Course has one tree in the middle of the fairway. I don’t remember it has an effect on play during the Ryder Cup but I think it surely has one for higher handicappers. From the scheme, an approach from the left fairway is better (better entry for the green and minimum distance) but if you slice a little the ball (I think it’s the common miss for higher handiccapers), you are behind the tree or on the right faiway with a more complex approach for the green.  

As a general rule, I prefer centerline bunkers than centerline trees because centerline bunkers offers you more options (“vertical impediment” of trees). But as beauty in golf lies in the variety, I think one hole with a centerline tree can be pleasant form time to time if position of the tree serves a minimum of strategy.

For those who have played Pebble Beach, is there trouble for all sorts of players with tree in the middle of 18 ?

[ForkaB]

John K (3) is right

The biggest of what were then 3 middle trees at Stanford was disappeared (a la tom MacWood and Dunbar) many years ago (I think it was closer to 30 than 40).  Unlike most trees, it was not (and it's successor is not) stupid.  This is Stanford, guys, remember!  Right of the trees is shorter but the creek looms and the shot to the green is blind.  Left is the smart play, particularly in this age when one can hit a 7-iron 200 yards .........

Another non-stupid tree is on the 1st at Barona.  It's cool to have to use elevation from time to time when thinking about how to play a golf shot.

[Tom_Doak]

Steve P. wrote:

Tom,
What about the vertical impediments the tree creates?  A bunker IMHO is easier to negotiate.


No question it is, but that's the point.  You can put 50 bunkers on a hole and a good player may not need to think about any of them, but a tree exerts its influence much more because of that vertical element.  That means it is a hazard to be used sparingly and with careful thought, but it doesn't mean one should never use it at all.

[Steve Okula]

I object to trees in general and in the fairway in particular because they are simply no fun. From a bunker, or rough, or any land form, the player always has a chance to hit a heroic shot and get back in the hole. These hazards provide options, and options equal freedom, and freedom is the meaning of life.

Trees are like water hazards, you hit them and you're dead - period. That sucks.

The Scots have had St. Andrews Old Course for five hundred years and look at how many trees they have planted. That should tell us something.

[Doug Ralston]

Sean;

I think you have that backwards. I am a very poor golfer, but I can hit the ball high. I have no skill at 'shaping' a shot. It seems much easier to go over. No one should be forced to go AROUND a tree ........ LOL.

#2 at Stonelick Hills in Cincy has a wonderful little tree in a very strategic position. It is a new course and the small tree WILL grow. As it matures, the nature of the hole will slowly evolve, and the choices become more acute. The designer, who really is the owner, was quite forsighted IMHO, on this hole. I am certain Glenn disagrees, but doesn't THAT prove my point?  

Doug

[Tom Huckaby]

Good call by Rich re Barona #1 - that's another great use of center tree - that makes the golf hole there as well.

Re 12 Stanford, well... I surely can't hit a 7iron 200 yards, but for those who can, yes left would always be the play.  For those of us who would like a chance to bounce something in, and need to do so on that long approach shot - especially with a back left pin - right does become tempting.  The short right bunker does make the shot semi-blind though... which adds to the vexing nature of the choices here.  Again take out the center trees and a lot of the vexing is gone.  Thus viva los arboles!  

BTW you guys have not seen a center tree until you've played #10 on the Hill course at Castlewood CC, Pleasanton, CA.  Unfortunately the picture on the club website is taken from the other side of such tree... likely a wise move by them.. but those who've played there know what I'm talking about.  This tree is huge, it's about 50 yards off the tee and obscures the entire fairway... the choices are a shot over it (usually requiring no lower loft than a 7iron) or something carved around it.  The hole is only 280 yards or so... so it kinda works... but it is weird to say the least.

TH

[Joel_Stewart]

Olympic Club has a few but the best known and probably the most effective was on the 7th hole a short uphill par4.  The tree which has died and been replaced then died again mainly made players play around it or over it.  Today it would still be easy to blow balls over it but line drive shots might catch it.  Here is a view without the tree.

[Tom Huckaby]

Joel - 7 remains a great golf hole.  But where was the tree?  In the center?  How far off the tee?  Man that must have been something....

TH

[Joel_Stewart]

It was on the right side of the fairway (in line with the green) where the shadows of the picture are.

This photo also shows the absurd mounds that Nicklaus suggested in the trees absence.

[Tom Huckaby]

Aha!  Thanks, Joel.  Yeah those mounds add
little value.  For some reason also I seem to remember
a tree there... I first played the course in early 80s...
was it there then?

TH

[Mike Benham]

This photo also shows the absurd mounds that Nicklaus suggested in the trees absence.

Looking at those mounds, I had assumed, incorrectly, that those mounds were once bunkers ... in fact, take out the mounds, mow the rough to fairway height and a wayward drive will move farther right ...

[Kevin_Reilly]

This is from a program for the '66 Open I believe (I got it from Joel).  Shows the tree described above.

[Tom Huckaby]

COOL!

Thanks, Kevin.  That tree sure as hell tightened up the tee shot...

TH

[Mike Benham]

Almost looks like the old Bayonet !!!

[Tom Huckaby]

Almost looks like the old Bayonet !!!

Ahhhh yes.... that it does, that it does.... but not quite.
No ball-grabbing underbrush beneath each tree.

[Steve Pieracci]

For me, that right hand tree is visually easier to play.  It's the center trees that I have heartburn with.

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