Turning Away From the Water

[Jordan Wall]

This past Saturday while caddying at Chambers Bay I took great note in the fourth hole, one of my personal favorites on the course.  As the first three holes headed toward and by the water, the fourth was the first hole which turned away from the water.  Though the holes on and by the water are awesome holes, I think one of the most important holes on the course is #4.  As the player first leaves the water, he heads up to the fourth tee where a large array of sand and bunkers, huge in scale,are presnted to the player.  Instead of a dissapointment turning away from the water, a great hole is presented to the player, and actually makes the player think he is glad to turn away from the water.

I think that on courses close to a big body of water, holes that turn away from the water on some of the most important on the course.

These holes really differentiate between a great all round course, or a course with just a few holes made great by the water.

What are some great 'turn away' holes?
What makes a great 'turn away' hole?
Are these 'turn away' holes indeed the most important holes on courses?

Are there courses which provide great turn away holes from features besides a body of water?

[Lester George]

I had the option of going either direction (toward or away) on the 17th at Kinloch.  After much deliberation I surprised most onlookers by going away.  Fortunately, most people consider it the best hole (par 3) on the course.  Many still ask why I did it and I tell them I did it to appease the golf gods, they don't believe me.

Lester

[Jordan Wall]

Lester,

Interesting.

That's quite cool.

Sometimes what is unexpected is good!

[Garland Bayley]

Jordan,

You are lucky to get to revisit CB all the time. I think you have a great observation about CB with this post. Good job!

[Tom_Doak]

Jordan:

Pebble Beach is not famous because of its eleventh hole, nor Cypress Point for its eighteenth; of that much, I'm certain.  Nor are the fifth and fourteenth at Pacific Dunes the best holes out there, though they're both reasonably good holes, anyway.

Your observation about Chambers Bay may be accurate, but having not seen it yet, I can't say.  Can you think of a handful of other examples?

[Jordan Wall]

Jordan:

Your observation about Chambers Bay may be accurate, but having not seen it yet, I can't say.  Can you think of a handful of other examples?

Tom,

I have not played any other courses that such a good job at turning away as Chambers.

Kapalua isn't really on the water, but hole 14 goes away from the water views and into the jungle (sort of), and that is a great hole.

There must be other examples though.
I just have not played or seen much of what is out there yet.

What about some holes on Sebonack that turn away?
Anything at Fishers Island, perhaps?

[Tom_Doak]

I don't know what you are counting as "turning away" -- I would have said Kapalua turned away at 12 or 13, not 14.

If you count just getting away from the cliff, then Sebonack turns away at the second hole, but you can still see the water prominently at 2 and 3, so I'd say the "turn away" holes are the 4th and the 13th.  Again, both of them good holes, but neither is usually mentioned as one of the best on the course.

[Jordan Wall]

I don't know what you are counting as "turning away" -- I would have said Kapalua turned away at 12 or 13, not 14.

That's probably true.  Like I said, Kapalua isn't really on the water, but it was the best example I could think of out of the courses I have personally played or seen.

I'm sure there must be other examples though.

[Tom_Doak]

Well, get out the World Atlas of Golf and start thinking about it.  That's what it's for.  Mine's at the office, though, and I'm not.  Let me see:

Turnberry #12 ?  X
Maidstone #15 ?  X
Mauna Kea #4 ?  XX yuck
New South Wales #7 ?  that's a pretty good hole
New South Wales #15 ?  not so much
Teeth of the Dog #9 ?  X

[Jordan Wall]

Tom,

I better get myself the World Atlas of Golf, eh!
 

[Jeff Doerr]

Jordan,

I think Kidd's routing at the Castle course has a little of what you see at Chambers Bay. From the routing I saw the first three holes will slowly tumble/work towards the cliff - then the fourth climbs away. The fifth runs the parallel direction as 1-3, and the sixth then takes you back down to the cliff. 7-9 follow the cliff back to the center of the property.

On Bandon Dunes, 7 and 17 are very nice holes that turn you away from the cliff.

[Tom_Doak]

Well if you don't have it already, you are way behind the curve.  But, at this point, perhaps it would be better to wait for the completely new edition which will be out next summer.

[Mike Nuzzo]

I wasn't too fond of Teeth of the dog's 18th either - the other turn away hole.

Jordan,
It sounds like the Chambers bay hole is competing.
My druthers would be a complementing hole.

Tom,
Completely new as in restored or renovated or redone?

Cheers

[Tom_Doak]

Mike:

The book is being totally rewritten.  Mark Rowlinson is the editor.  I've been asked to write a small piece of it, as have several others who frequent this site [not to mention Ran Morrissett, who can't be said to frequent this site].

[Tim Gavrich]

I'd imagine that Spyglass would be the #1 candidate for a course that suffers from "peaking too early," with all the seaside holes coming at the very beginning.  Without having played it, it would seem to me that some players would be disappointed to walk off of the 5th green, knowing that the scenery for the rest of the round would be effectively nil compsred to what they had just experienced.

Does #18 at Cypress "turn away" properly?

How about #11 at Pebble Beach?

What about the holes that are not along the ocean at the Ocean Course?  Does this count?

The 15th at Pawleys Plantation is the most familiar example to me.  After the peninsula (into the marsh) 13th and the 14th (with the marsh bordering the entire right side of the hole), hole 15 heads back into a forest (of trees, houses, and conds  )  It is a strong hole, calling for a bold, accurate drive through something of a chute of trees, leaving a look at a green bullied by a big, deep bunker short-left of the green.  Nicklaus keeps the golfers attention until heading back to the marsh on 16.

[Jordan Wall]

Tom,

I need one, I know.  Next summer it will be high on my list of things to purchase.


Jeff,

Inetersting.  I really liked how Chambers went to the water, away, then finished at the water again.  In my opinion, its a good way to route a golf course on a site close to the water, if the non water holes are done well.  Its interesting to note that several architects are routing courses this way.  It will be fun to see how Kidd's course turns out.


Mike,

Chamber's hole does sound like it is completeing, but deservedly so.  The view, so grand in scale, is simply awesome from the tee.  I also love the green complex, where a kicker slope will kick balls toward the green.  Any miss short, which is the easiest place to miss on an uphill hole, is completely dead.  It is quite a golf hole.


Tim,

The 11th at Pebble and 18th at Cypress are not usually mentioned in the top holes on their respective courses.
Pawley's sounds like a fun course.  Hopefully the condos dont intrude too much.

[mike_beene]

11 at Pebble is disappointing because it takes you uphill,away from a spectacular stretch,to a real estate development never to return unless you count 17 which is an odd par 3 in a field that the ocean happens to be behind,followed by more real estate.I nominate 13or 14? at Kingsbarns.You still get the sea in your periphery and abrief opportunity to return.