[rjsimper]

Ryan,

I loved the fact that the original hole looked perfectly docile, allowed you to almost putt from the tee if you chose to, seemed perfectly visibly obvious, and went in for none of the eye-candy that we seem to demand in all of our golf holes.

The new one fails all those standards.  

First of all, I don't think telling Tom Paul anything will ever "work" as you've phrased it.  I may not be able to speak both authoritatively and stentorianly on many subjects, but that is one fact that I have committed to memory.

Re: #4 I think the new green is vastly superior.  Previously, it played pretty much as a typical two-tiered green.  Now, the channel running middle right to back left is far more playable for either a running shot or a sweeping draw and makes the back pins more accessible and more fun.  The fact that the new green does work so much better is precisely why I can possibly find myself agreeing with you that the berm/bunkering that obscures the view takes away from some of the enjoyment of the hole...as well as the thought every golfer that ever set foot on the tee for the first time had..."this is it?"

I remember wondering if it was a temporary hole...having virtually no features other than a grassed field to cross en route to a big, circular green.

[Mike_Cirba]

I remember wondering if it was a temporary hole...having virtually no features other than a grassed field to cross en route to a big, circular green.

I know...how freaking cool was that!?

Wish Kavanaugh could have seen it.   It was the most anti-framing hole ever built, and with John K. as a staunch Fazioite it would have been like those Superman episodes where matter meets anti-matter.

He might have gotten locked into some type of magnetic limbo and might still be frozen, statue-like, on the 4th tee, unable to move forward or back for eternity.

[ed_getka]

Pete,
   I can make the carry so that is not an issue. If that carry is 200 yards it has to be way to the right, at which point you are flirting with being in the chapparal. Maybe I'm wrong about Joe Sixpack, and he is happy to march across the wash to play the whites.
  I could be wrong, but it seems to me that if you can play the blue tees readily for 17 holes, that there shouldn't be one that is so much more difficult. As you know the carry on #14 is not purely a yardage issue, there is generally a wind to be dealt with.
    Besides we were asked to come up with a change, and I love Rustic so there aren't many things I am inclined to change there.

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