These quotes apply to which courses?

[Ran Morrissett]

A famous contributor to this site said of a Pete Dye course, " Mr. Dye's ability to require the player to strategically place the ball in the wide fairways so as to permit the proper angle to the pin on the second shot reminds me a great deal of Pinehurst No.2."Jim Flick said this Seth Raynor course is the premier example of "a golf course that is meant to be played on the ground and not through the air."Name the two courses and for an extra point, who said the first one.

[T_MacWood]

TPC-Geoff ShacklefordShoreacres? Wild guess, but what the hell does Jim Flick know anyway.I attended a clinic that he gave a few years ago, before an outing I was playing in. He had me so confused that I was a basket case for a month afterward. The following year my wife and children took me out for dinner on my birthday. The evening was going wonderfuly, when out of the corner of my eye I spotted much to my horror, Jim Flick sitting at the table across from mine. My game was screwed up for another month.Ran, thanks for mentioning his name. Thankfully the season is almost over.

[Ran Morrissett]

It is an earlier course than TPC and Geoff did not say it (even though I'm sure he wished he had  As for Shoreacres, that was my guess too - it still makes the most sense but alas, it is another Raynor course. Still, there are so many neat holes like the 5th at SA that encourage the approach to be bounced onto the green. Of course, if Flick doesn't know what he is talking about, then maybe SA is in fact a better answer.

[b.williams]

tom doak-the golf club?yeamans hall, sc?

[Ran Morrissett]

No, the answer to the second one is Camargo but I still think Shoreacres is a better answer in terms of encouraging a ground game. Any comments?As for the first, the answer is Crooked Stick and neither Tom Doak nor Geoff Shackelford said it, much to their chagrin, I'm sure Another famous contributor to this site said it. Any guesses?

[Glenn Spencer]

Can someone explain to me, how or why Camargo is supposed to be played on the ground? I don't follow that logic.

[mike_beene]

Alice Dye