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Jason Blasberg

Re:Dismal River Photo Tour
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2006, 09:04:54 AM »
The one thing that I see when looking at the pictures is that other holes come into view when playing a particular hole, and I don't remember that being the case too often at Sand Hills or Ballyneal, other courses of its kind.

Not being picky at all, just posting a statement.

Maybe the course is in the flatter portion of the sand hills or maybe Nicklaus wasn't concerned with this at all.

Scott:

Seeing other holes is an absolute positive attribute, the irony is that from the routing plan's I've seen, Ballyneal is far more intimate than Dismal so you would expect more of that at BN.  

I cannot opine either way as to the extent of visuals at either since I've not seen them in person yet.  

I'd like to know why you would consider seeing other holes a negative . . . please explain?

Jason Blasberg

Re:Dismal River Photo Tour
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2006, 09:06:31 AM »
Based on photos alone I still say DR is one of the most visually stunning I've seen.  

I'm anxious to see it in person to see if the criticism's here have any merit.  

Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dismal River Photo Tour
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2006, 10:48:26 AM »
I suppose if you are used to playing at NGLA or Pine Valley or Merion, you might find some flaws in these photos.

Compared to the courses I frequent, however, DR looks absolutely incredible. Of course it would have been nice to do a better job hiding the cart paths (or eliminating them entirely), but that is just a minor quibble. In all other respects, this looks like one of hell of a fun course.

Scott Szabo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dismal River Photo Tour
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2006, 11:15:18 AM »

Scott:

Seeing other holes is an absolute positive attribute, the irony is that from the routing plan's I've seen, Ballyneal is far more intimate than Dismal so you would expect more of that at BN.  

I cannot opine either way as to the extent of visuals at either since I've not seen them in person yet.  

I'd like to know why you would consider seeing other holes a negative . . . please explain?

Jason,

Just a personal preference, I guess.  The anticipation of seeing where the rest of the course takes you is diminished a bit when you can see the other holes beforehand.  Like I said, not much of a negative, just a personal preference that I've acquired since playing the likes of Sand Hills and Ballyneal.

I haven't been to DR and would love to see the place.  It looks stunning, even with the constant criticism it is receiving.

Scott
"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dismal River Photo Tour
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2006, 11:47:55 AM »
TIm: Some of the bunkers that you are seeing were there before the course was built - when you're driving out of North Platte to Mullen you see them all over the hills.  I don't know if that is the case with the ones you are noting but it could be - that's what makes the land so incredible.  

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dismal River Photo Tour
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2006, 11:55:27 AM »

Scott:

Seeing other holes is an absolute positive attribute, the irony is that from the routing plan's I've seen, Ballyneal is far more intimate than Dismal so you would expect more of that at BN.  

I cannot opine either way as to the extent of visuals at either since I've not seen them in person yet.  

I'd like to know why you would consider seeing other holes a negative . . . please explain?

Jason,

Just a personal preference, I guess.  The anticipation of seeing where the rest of the course takes you is diminished a bit when you can see the other holes beforehand.  Like I said, not much of a negative, just a personal preference that I've acquired since playing the likes of Sand Hills and Ballyneal.

I haven't been to DR and would love to see the place.  It looks stunning, even with the constant criticism it is receiving.

Scott

One great thing about seeing the greens you will be playing later in the round is the ablity to check the pin placements.  Even though I like yardage markers on the sprinklers, I still enjoy playing the course "by feel" to an extent.  Not every course provides a pin sheet, and when it's your home course, it's nice to play without consulting the sheet every time.

It is a very individual thing, but overall, I'd say I enjoy seeing the other holes of the course.  When you get to about the 15th tee at Sand Hills, and can see the beautiful course laid out across the hills, it's very inspiring.

I visited Dismal River last fall, before opening.  It's beautiful.  It's huge.  The pictures make it look very fun to play.  I have three primary reservations/concerns about the course.  One, it looked very difficult when I toured the course, and I've heard that it is very hard.  Two, although it is technically walkable, I feel a greater effort should have been made to build a walkable design.  On the other hand, 80-90% of the players ride at Sand Hills, so maybe it's naive of me to wish for that.  Third, the bent grass greens are so severely sloped that balls will feed into the same few places, thus reducing short game variety.

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dismal River Photo Tour
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2006, 12:16:04 PM »
I didn't think the course was at all manufactured, but I did find the fairways too green, if that makes any sense. What I mean is you see all this natural brownish everywhere and then you have this bright green ribbons of fairway.

I would have prefered they use a grass that appeared to fit better with the landscape.

What I think Chris Cochran did here was try to be intentionally different than Sand Hills, and he accomplished that. Perhaps he pushed the envelope a bit too much in selecting his routing with all the severly elevated greens and the natural wild contouring that nature provided, but if I know JN's work well enough, he will make the changes necessary.

My guess is their 2nd course, will be better. The land they selected for that is far more choppy, less severe from what I understand and will be much more like Ballyneal than what they did here.

Neither Bette nor I had much difficulty with the course except with the putting, but the day we played they left all the pins in the front, so the area pin area JN was going to use for opening day would be smooth as silk.

The front pins are impossible because you can't hold a wedge, downwind to these elevated greens. I found a ball mark about 6 feet from the pin with an 8 iron and a 150 foot putt was what I got.

I hate the name Dismal River, and Matt Ward is correct about the 13th hole, but they were quick to recognize they needed to soften it.

One other thing I predict is that this course will play slow. Regardless of the wide width of the fairways, to the average golfer, it is one very intimidating course.

If you have the opportunity, it is great to play all 3, Sand Hills, Dismal River and Ballyneal. It is a real treat and you can see the diversity of C & C, JN, and Tom Doak first hand in similiar but diverse settings.

Ballyneal is the most intimidate of the 3, DR is the most spread out.
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Jim Nugent

Re:Dismal River Photo Tour
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2006, 01:24:48 PM »
Cary, is JN doing a second course at Dismal River?  

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dismal River Photo Tour
« Reply #33 on: December 23, 2006, 03:38:25 PM »
TIm: Some of the bunkers that you are seeing were there before the course was built - when you're driving out of North Platte to Mullen you see them all over the hills.  I don't know if that is the case with the ones you are noting but it could be - that's what makes the land so incredible.  

Jerry- There's significant differences in the blowouts seen on the drive up to the region and these superfulous bunkers to the left of #1. If they tied in with something beyond, similar to the way Dr. Mac designed his "look" at The Valley Club, utilizing bunkers of varying scales on completely different holes to create all sorts of visual and depth perception stimuli, they'd make more sense.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dismal River Photo Tour
« Reply #34 on: December 23, 2006, 03:52:36 PM »
Cary, is JN doing a second course at Dismal River?  

Yes he is.
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dismal River Photo Tour
« Reply #35 on: December 23, 2006, 08:13:03 PM »
Brian Curtis is the young and up-coming architect (building architect) that is doing the hands-on work at Dismal. He offices with me so I keep up to date on the clubhouse, cabins and homes. They are quite remarkable, and appropriate to the site. Brian worked for Doug Fredrickson, an accomplished clubhouse architect based here in Phoenix. I am disappointed that no photos cover the 19th hole progress!
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dismal River Photo Tour
« Reply #36 on: December 23, 2006, 10:37:45 PM »
Brian Curtis is the young and up-coming architect (building architect) that is doing the hands-on work at Dismal. He offices with me so I keep up to date on the clubhouse, cabins and homes. They are quite remarkable, and appropriate to the site. Brian worked for Doug Fredrickson, an accomplished clubhouse architect based here in Phoenix. I am disappointed that no photos cover the 19th hole progress!

yea, I wonder if they are done building the bowling lanes yet?
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dismal River Photo Tour
« Reply #37 on: December 24, 2006, 05:04:50 AM »
from what I understand (it) will be much more like Ballyneal than what they did here.

I would like to hear more about this???
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Matthew Mollica

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dismal River Photo Tour
« Reply #38 on: December 24, 2006, 06:04:12 AM »
Michael and others,

Firstly - thanks for the photos - wonderful.

Two things

a ) Have Jack & co made a significant departure from the visual template they seem to employ so often?

b ) Is it just me, or does Dismal River look remarkably like Greg Norman's Moonah Course at The National?

Matthew
« Last Edit: December 24, 2006, 05:27:50 PM by Matthew Mollica »
"The truth about golf courses has a slightly different expression for every golfer. Which of them, one might ask, is without the most definitive convictions concerning the merits or deficiencies of the links he plays over? Freedom of criticism is one of the last privileges he is likely to forgo."

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dismal River Photo Tour
« Reply #39 on: December 24, 2006, 12:56:45 PM »
Paul — Bowling lanes? Please explain so I am up to speed.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dismal River Photo Tour
« Reply #40 on: December 24, 2006, 01:20:59 PM »
Paul — Bowling lanes? Please explain so I am up to speed.

Forrest -when I was there they told us they were putting in a few bowling alley lanes for their members!
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dismal River Photo Tour
« Reply #41 on: December 24, 2006, 03:21:45 PM »
I will have to ask Brian about that — either he has been kept from this information...or he kept it from us!

Reminds me of a quote — "Bowling is exactly like golf, only diffrernt."
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com