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Jeff_McDowell

Re: What is fun?
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2002, 10:01:54 AM »
My ideas of what makes golf fun are similar to everyone else's. I particularly like having options and having to make decisions. After Scotland, I am one hundred percent sold on firm and fast being fun.

Rich, your idea that you almost always have fun seems too optimistic to me. Yeah, the game is a great game, and it's always nice to be golfing, but there has to be some instances where the design of the course wasn't fun. For example, I played a long par four with a branch hanging over the tee that knocked down almost all shots. That's not fun, it's absurd. I also played a par four you had to tee off with a mid iron to play short of water, and then bust a 3 wood to carry the water. That's not fun, that's virtually unplayable.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: What is fun?
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2002, 10:39:38 AM »
TEPaul,

Playing GOLF is the most fun I have ever had,
with my clothes on.   ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

THuckaby2

Re: What is fun?
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2002, 11:06:34 AM »
Chip:  yes, I have indeed never had a bad caddie... some indeed have added more enjoyment than others, but I have yet to have any detract from the experience.  Please do remember though that I've probably had a caddie for less than 50 rounds in my life.

Pat Mucci:  what, you've never played nude golf?  Live a little, man...  ;)

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is fun?
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2002, 11:24:15 AM »
I can't help approaching this question from the opposite direction (because I agree that golf with the right attitude is always fun.)

What isn't fun?

Or put another way, what experiences on the golf course make it almost impossible for some of us to retain the right attitude?

For me, it's too many long forced carries, holes that tilt towards dense underbrush from which a ball can't be extracted, greens that are divided into smaller plateaus for hole locations that create circus putts, pinched fairways with no bailouts (sand left, water right, etc.), elevated greens with steep fairway run-ups that are poorly maintained, taking away the putting or even bump-and-run options -- in general, courses that beat you up. Difficult courses are one thing, but I get discouraged on courses with a number of holes that show you no other way to play them but the way a tour pro would play them: 270 down the middle, and a mid-iron stiff to a well-guarded pin.

It's not fun for me to attempt to be a tour pro -- I don't do that impersonation very well.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Jim_H

Re: What is fun?
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2002, 11:53:18 AM »
I'm not sure that I can offer much new, but for me "fun" on a golf course is:
    1)  A course where a good round (measured primarily by score) is possible.  I don't enjoy courses where you feel mugged when you finish.
   2)  A course that offers many reasonable risk-reward shot opportunities.
   3)  A beautiful course, but where the beauty is secondary to the strategic value of the shots.
   4)  A course in harmony with nature and its natural surroundings.
   5)  Amenities and weather that make the round enjoyable.
   6)  Competition and competitors that are pleasant and additive to the round.
   7)  Walking with a caddie, getting exercise, but not so many hills or green-to-tee hikes that exhaustion takes over.
   8)  And, a course and a round that I remember well after it is over.  Fun is lying in bed the night after a round and enjoyably replaying in my mind each shot and remembering each hole.





« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is fun?
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2002, 12:45:28 PM »
In the spirit of Charles Foster Kane ("I think it would be FUN to run a newspaper") ...

I think it would be FUN to design a golf course containing all of these, my GCA-related ideas of FUN (not a Comprehensive List -- but gettin' there!). Many of these have been mentioned earlier in this thread, and they're here in no particular order, except for the order they're in (or, as my English teachers would have preferred -- and did, in fact, prefer: except for the order in which they are):

** Wide fairways (mostly). Not because I'm a wild driver (I'm not), but because (1) blasting away is FUN, and (2) wide fairways tend to offer more strategic/tactical options, which are FUN.

** Greens with bunkers and pin positions designed to favor tee shots from one side of the fairway or the other. (Lesson: Man does not live by blasting away alone.)

** Blind shots (at least the second time, and henceforth -- and possibly even the first time, as at the forget-which-hole totally blind par-3 at North Berwick West).

** Recovery shots, between/under/over/around trees. Trees get a bad rap here, it seems to me. So long as they're discrete, with enough separation that a sideways play isn't the only play, trees offer some of the best fun you can have on a golf course. For my money, there's NOTHING more fun in golf than working a big low slice or a big high hook to miss the trees and find the green. Bonus: those awesome Autumn colors. Drawback:the Leaf Rule.

** Greens with front openings. Essential for those recovery-from-the-trees shots, but FUN always. I love seeing a ball bounce up from the fairway to a front pin position -- or to a back pin, for that matter. I love the option of hitting a knockdown bouncer or a big high dart -- an option that green-front bunkers too often deny the player.

** Beautiful, big-skied vistas -- as well as self-contained, tunnelish holes. (I really like Jeff Brauer's analogy of walking up the tunnel into a football stadium.)

** Wind, in various directions during a round, and at various speeds from day to day.

** Severely uphill and downhill shots -- both offering the FUN of uncertainty. My ideal course would have at least one extremely downhill tee shot (par-3, 4 or 5; doesn't matter), where the ball would hang in the air more or less forever. It would have one severely uphill tee shot, to a par-3 where one could see only the top of the flag from the tee.

**  I would have one very short Par-3, with a tiny green. I would have one very long Par-3, with a huge green.

** I go along with Monsieur Goodale in finding fast-and-firm and humps-and-hollows and challenges FUN. Linksland is nice, if that's where you are, but it ain't strictly necessary for FUN. (What do you expect, from a guy more than a thousand miles from any ocean?) As for weather: I can play golf very happily without rain, if not without wind, and without excessive heat, if not without manly cold.

** Enough rough to rob a shot of spin, but not to swallow balls. Thesis: As much as environmental laws will allow, a ball on a golf course should be clearly lost or clearly findable. Searching for balls is not FUN.

** Deep greenside (emphasize SIDE) bunkers, with enough sand to make a shot problematical, but not so much that every shot is a wild guess.

** Pot bunkers. They're just so ... cute! I like them in front of greens -- so that that bounce shot I favor might have to be a draw-bounce or a fade-bounce to avoid the pot and find a center-of-the-green pin.

** Small bunkers, in general -- just large enough to create their strategic challenge. Bunkers that punish HORRIBLE shots are over-large, in my view, and NO FUN. A much more FUN shot, to follow that horrible shot that would have ended in an over-large bunker, is a pitch shot over a reasonably sized bunker. (And it goes without saying that raking those Saharan bunkers is NO FUN.)

** Carry bunkers, just carryable with a fine tee shot from the appropriate tees.

** At least one bunker -- CLEARLY VISIBLE from the tee -- right in the middle of a wide, wide fairway. The FUN here would be watching the head-shaking and cursing and turf-smashing of those who hit the ball in there, anyway, and then blame the architect!

** Greenside and greenfront and greenback chipping areas.

** A relatively easy Hole No. 1; a relatively hard No. 18.

** Angled carry hazards, w/ bailout options.

** Some big rolly greens, and some little flat tilty ones.

** A series of tees that (a) offer tee shots with similar challenges to people of different lengths; and (b) are not in a line on the same axis -- so that shorter hitters can prepare to play from the shorter tees even as longer hitters tee off from the longer tees, without putting their lives on the line.

** VARIETY: Variety, IMO, is the bottom line, at the end of the day. (Someone, stop me before I cliche myself to death!) I think it's FUN to play as many different kinds of shots, on as many different kinds of hole, as it's possible to play on a single golf course. If that makes my ideal FUN course a "collection of holes" rather than a "course," so be it!

Amen.

P.S. Either all of what I've said above -- or just let me play Sand Hills for the rest of my life. That would be FUN enough.

********************

Rich --

In re: "Qu'est-ce que c'est qu'un tete du pipe?"

Very funny.

And even funnier: Not a tyop in sight! Maybe you should stick to French!

Or maybe not: On second thought, shouldn't that be "qu'une tete de pipe"?

As they say in Fife: C'est la vie!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

THuckaby2

Re: What is fun?
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2002, 12:49:48 PM »
Dan:  great stuff!  Of course playing Sand Hills the rest of one's life would make all of this work...

But for those of us with zero knowledge of French but who dig the byplay here (ok, me) can you please translate Chip's question and Rich's answer?  I mean it... send via email if it isn't fit for publication here.

I really thought Chip just asked what dickhead meant... I'm guessing Rich translated dickhead into literal French... close?

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is fun?
« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2002, 12:59:49 PM »
Tom IV --

I certainly hope that's what he did!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

TEPaul

Re: What is fun?
« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2002, 07:37:37 PM »
Pat:

Touche! Your last post is one of those rare times I can't find a single reason to argue with you!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

R.S._Barker

Re: What is fun?
« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2002, 09:27:00 PM »
Of late every time I play a round, it's fun. Perhaps thats because i've made a resolution to just be happy and enjoy life to the utmost. No matter the score, no matter the weather, when I reach the 19th and want to go again...thats fun.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

ChipOat

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is fun?
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2002, 06:16:20 AM »
Tom Huckaby:

50 rounds w/o a bad caddie is a terrific track record that I've never enjoyed.

Then again, perhaps I'm a difficult curmudgeon and you are a truly nice guy.  I know that the former is true and your posts offer substantial evidence that the latter is also an accurate description.

As to my question to Rich: you are correct as to the literal (incorrectly spelled) translation.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

THuckaby2

Re: What is fun?
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2002, 06:21:58 AM »
Thanks, Chip!  I'd guess it's 5% me being nice and 95% good luck.  But perhaps I do just hugely err on the side of being "thrilled to have a caddie period"... that likely explains it.  And yeah, I'm not exactly a demanding taskmaster.

Interesting, the closest thing to a "bad" caddie I can remember occurred at Pebble Beach... the young guy I had the last time I played there wasn't exactly "into it", at least at the beginning.  But my friends and I were having so much fun, were so thrilled to be playing Pebble, and it was a very nice day... he came around by the back nine.

TH

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim Weiman

Re: What is fun?
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2002, 06:43:14 AM »
Tom Huckaby:

Speaking of Pebble Beach, I'll tell you what WASN'T fun:

My first time playing the course I had just come off a birdie at #7 and par at #8 and lay in the ninth fairway.

I asked my caddie whether there was any trouble missing left.

He assured me there was no trouble on the left side of #9 green.....I just didn't want to hit my ball into the ocean.

So, I aimed for the mioddle of the green and the wind blew me left and short.

Death in the form of double bogey!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

THuckaby2

Re: What is fun?
« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2002, 06:46:50 AM »
Tim - oh yeah, left and short is "no bahgain eithuh" (effecting Rodney Dangerfield accent).  There is a pretty nasty bunker and a hill and some awful cabbage rough over there, as you sadly found out!

Damn that is one tough golf hole....

TH

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim Weiman

Re: What is fun?
« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2002, 07:00:30 AM »
Tom Huckaby:

Back to fun:

How about discovering the good nine holes at Pacific Grove?

That was almost as good as discovering Dooks!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

THuckaby2

Re: What is fun?
« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2002, 07:03:09 AM »
Well said, Tim - I've yet to see Dooks, but PG Muni is a treasure indeed... my first time there I was stunned, and angry... angry because I had lived within 50 miles of it for so long and had taken so long to get around to playing it!

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: What is fun?
« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2002, 09:33:11 AM »
Mr. Baker is 100% correct.  Attitude is everything.  Perhaps that's why the Huckster seems to be so much "luckier" than the rest of us, and why he has a friend in every corner of the planet.

What is fun?

Getting annihilated on a beautiful, natural course by America's Guest, and licking my wounds on the porch over a cold beer.

Making a five-foot downhill putt on a wonderful daily-fee course to annihilate BarnyF one-up.

Playing with two lefties on what could be America's best golf value, in windy, firm, fast conditions; four putting a short downwind par-3; unable to hit a green from 3 yards out; hitting driver-8 iron on a mid 500 yard par 5 going one-way, and driver-3 iron on a 420 yard par 4 going the other.

Standing in awe after making a triple-bogey on one of the most memorable holes anywhere, and not feeling badly that I just ruined one of the best scoring rounds of my life.  Knocking a blind second shot to within a foot of the cup on the next hole.

Watching a playing partner executing Seve shots.

Sitting around a table at the home of a total stranger, now a friend, sampling single-malt scotch and listening to extraordinarlily interesting, informed, and enthusiastic people.

Not always staying on architectural themes with people of diverse perspectives such as my liberal friend from L.A. and the labor advocate from WI.  Life would be boring (and dangerous) if every one thought like me, and all golf courses were the same (though I would take my chances with Cypress Point).
  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

THuckaby2

Re: What is fun?
« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2002, 09:39:53 AM »
That is absolutely wonderfully stated, Lou.  Experiences like these are life... and definitely describe what makes this game so damn great.

I sincerely appreciate the kind words, also. Muchas gracias, amigo.

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »