[PThomas]

so wrote Peter Dobereiner about the members' opinion of the  New course in his Forward to Trent Jones'book "Golf's Magnificent Challenge"

did Peter get this wrong?  I have never heard or read anything by anyone else who thought the New was better than the Old.

Did/do the members feel as he wrote?

since most people seem to think the Old is (much!?!?) better than the New, why is that?  why isn't the New as good?

[Bill Gayne]

I've had a couple of people tell me that they prefer the Cashen. The dunes are pretty severe as compared to the old.

[Don Dinkmeyer]

I'm only half-qualified, as I've played Old but not Cashen. Seems a pretty bold statement, based on the wide array of reviews from raters near and far.

As for the membership, maybe there's a hotdog hut at the turn on Cashen which makes it more appealing(!) because there sure isn't one on Old.

I grant you Ballybunion Old is the only great course i've played that starts out with a half-dozen unremarkable holes, then runs the rack with the next dozen. Amazing...

[David_Tepper]

Paul -

I think you can pretty much dismiss a statement such as this as public relations/bar room  B.S., akin to Gary Player calling just about whatever course he is playing a tournament at as "the finest course of its type."

I doubt Mr. Doberiener took a credible poll of what Ballyunion's members thought of the Cashen course when it opened. He was likely simply trying to pay Mr. Jones a compliment, regardless of whether it was truly deserved

I would not give it a second thought.

DT

 

[Larry_Keltto]

It was my impression while there that the members most certainly do not prefer the Cashen. The Cashen was nearly empty the three days I was there. The only people who wanted to play it were the tourists. The Old was packed with members.

[Brad Klein]

Dobereiner was a gentleman in everything he said, but he was no idiot.  

The New Course is simply forced, squeezed and mashed into place. RTJ's penchant for "greens within greens" and pronounced fairway slopes in those days seemed arbitrarily imposed on the Ballybunion land. It was not an easy site, and instead of going soft with what was there it seems he imposed even more aggressive features at every turn. It's an unplayable mess.

[PThomas]

I wonder if the members ever think about having the New redone/ploughed up/ done again from scratch?

[cary lichtenstein]

I loved the Cashen course, thought it was way underrated, way better than I had anticipated, but a real hard walk, and with very exaggerated lies.

I liked the Old better, but certainly would recommend the New.

[Tommy Williamsen]

If had my choice I would play the Old.  I almost didn't play the Cashen Course the first time I went to Ballybunion.  No one I knew liked it at all.  Like Cary I was surprised how much I did like it.  It was great fun.  Some holes were  indeed forced but it was a ball trying to figure out what to do and then try to do it.  It would be a terrible course to have to post a score, but if you don't care about score and enjoy hitting shots and playing holes you'll never see again it is fun.  Nonetheless, it is not a better course than the Old.

[Jonathan Cummings]

I've played them both a million times and find the statement laughable if not downright offensive.

If difficulty is your measure than the nod goes to Cashen.  If character is your measure, the two are not even in the same book, much less the same page.

Comparing Old and Cashen is like comparing the Great with the lesser Pyramids of Giza.

JC

[Ed Tilley]

I've played both courses a few times. The Old course is clearly a better course but everyone I played with loved the Cashen. It's ridiculously unfair but absolutely spectacular. Some of the holes are breathtaking, if borderline unplayable.

If you don't count score and just play you'll have a ball. With card in hand you'll be tearing your hair out by the turn. If I was a member I would play the Old course far more regularly but as a visitor you'd be mad to miss it.

[john_stiles]

With my limited play and knowing only a few members, my impression was that Cashen was given much less play by the membership than the Old.

Now, with the passing of RTJ,  are there any plans for changes to Cashen ?    Any developments on revising Cashen ?

[Paul Richards]

Paul said:

>did Peter get this wrong?  


To put it simply - Peter musta been on bad meds to make a statement like this.


The New course or Cashen course does not hold a single candle to the Old.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I have played both several times. I think the new is the harder course but the Old is a much better course. Jonathan put a nice context to it.

[Ed Tilley]

Some pics:

[PThomas]

thanks Ed

looks like very severe terrain...too severe for a great course??

[jeffwarne]

Well from those pictures Jordan can announce it's a great course
Although in Jordan's defense, I always use pictures when selecting some out of the way courses to play. Most courses in the UK have great websites.

I enjoyed the Cashen course. WELL worth playing when in the area.
I particularly enjoyed the fact that it was empty.
While the course definitely isn't the equal of the old course, not many courses are.

[Michael Ryan]

Ed,

Which course are those holes on?  Old or Cashen?  Sorry for asking folks, never played BallyB, but its high on my list.

Mike

[mike_malone]

 I've heard  the  most criticism comes from the placement of the greens up in the dunes requiring aerial shots too often. With the possibility of significant wind the approaches can be unplayable.

   I thoroughly enjoyed the course. Only the downhill and angled tee shot on #9 was annoying.

[Ed Tilley]

Ed,

Which course are those holes on?  Old or Cashen?  Sorry for asking folks, never played BallyB, but its high on my list.

Mike

These are all from the Cashen course. The 3rd picture is a par 5! So is the 4th whereas the 5th picture is a 430 yard par 4. I remember hitting driver / driver into that green into a 'brisk' wind. It's a bit severe for the length of the hole to say the least.

[cary lichtenstein]

I believe the dunes on the Cashen course are the biggest, maybe by far, of any I have ever played. The scale of the dunes, go back and look at the picture of the player walking, are immense.

It is not a course to be missed, don't expect a good score because if you hit it off the fairway, the lies are nearly impossible (even puts Oakmont to shame ).

I skipped it the first time I went to Ireland because of the the negative press, but I played it the 2nd trip and I would recommend it to all.

[Ed Tilley]

thanks Ed

looks like very severe terrain...too severe for a great course??

It's definitely not a great course but, like Tralee, a lot of fun if you're not counting.

[Paul Richards]

I'd play the Old Course 1000 times more before I go back on the New.

Since Ed mentioned it, I'd also play Tralee 99 times before the 100th was on the New.

[Geoffrey Childs]

If I were to play a tournament at stroke play one of the last places I'd want to hold it would be the Cashen course. I would not want to be a rater having to give numbers to the course either.

However, anyone who can look at those photos and not believe that there are absolutely breathtaking and thrilling golf shots on the Cashen course that are an absolute blast to attempt is taking the game way too seriously for a casual round of golf. I loved my round there.

I ask would you say the same negatives about Painswick?

[Bill Gayne]

The 13th hole on the Cashen was one of my favorites of the 36 holes at Ballybunion. It can be a brutal golf course even on a mild day.

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