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Noel Freeman

Deal Circa 1923
« on: December 19, 2006, 12:27:59 PM »
« Last Edit: December 19, 2006, 12:31:42 PM by Noel Freeman »

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Deal Circa 1923
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2006, 06:21:12 PM »
Noel,

Great to see an old shot posted here, it's interesting to note Sandy Parlour and the massive cross bunkers on 5 which can still be seen. One thing I hadn't realised is the big flat depression on the right of 10 looks like it used to be a large bunker.

The new tee on 10 and the reshaping of the bunker on 12 to the rear of it have been completed to a very high standard. 1st class pure fescue turf has been laid and the rough shaped so the area looks established even though it was laid 2 weeks ago. Next time I'm down I'll post some pictures.
Cave Nil Vino

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Deal Circa 1923
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2006, 06:35:38 PM »
I was hoping someone who knew the course would comment on the changes.

For those who don't know the course the hole in the bottom right of the photo is no 1 and then 2 reverses away to the North east with 18 finishing up  between one and two.

From what I can see.  6 played straight but is now a dogleg right.

There appear to be substantial centre line bunkers on 6, 7, 8&9 (today 8 is a par 3).

Also is it artistic license or do the holes on the way in seem to overlap more?

Please tell us more.
Let's make GCA grate again!

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:Deal Circa 1923
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2006, 07:19:50 PM »
I had forgotten the location of the clubhouse ... I remembered it was offset so that the first hole played past it, but had forgotten that it was across the street as shown.  I was looking at an aerial photo of Walton Heath a couple of weeks ago and noticed the same thing ... the clubhouse is among a bunch of homes across the street from the main part of the courses, so that a person who had not visited the club could never pick it out from an aerial view.

I can't think of a course in America where the clubhouse is slightly removed from the course and blends in with buildings in town.  Of course, a huge parking lot is one of the prime considerations nowadays.

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Deal Circa 1923
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2006, 08:12:33 PM »
A number of holes and the bunkers look really great in this picture.  On the 2nd hole, are the 3 horizontal bunkers still there and how far out are they?

Also, from the top left, 4 fairways in,  is a really interesting hole with an amazing long vertical fairway bunker that splits the fairway in 2.  How long is that hole as well as the bunker?

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Deal Circa 1923
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2006, 10:22:56 PM »
A number of holes and the bunkers look really great in this picture.  On the 2nd hole, are the 3 horizontal bunkers still there and how far out are they?

Also, from the top left, 4 fairways in,  is a really interesting hole with an amazing long vertical fairway bunker that splits the fairway in 2.  How long is that hole as well as the bunker?

From posts above, that would be #8 and is now a par 3.  You're right, amazing looking bunker.  I have been eager to get to Kent coast and now am positively salivating.  ;D

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Deal Circa 1923
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2006, 10:47:25 PM »
Looking at their web site, the bunker on #8 no longer remains.  The hole play quite short but looking at its current state I can't see any sign of it existing.

Here is the history according to the web site.

The Original Links

The original Links, constructed with such speed by Henry Hunter in 1892 as a 9-hole layout, had the same greens on the 1st, 2nd and 3rd as exist today, although the tees were further forward and the holes therefore shorter.

The first major difference from that which a player sees today was the 4th, known as 'Sandy Parlour'. This went from today’s winter tee by the sea wall, over the high dune alongside the ladies tee, to a green in the hollow beyond.

The 5th green was 50 yards short of its present position and led to a short hole of about 155 yards – the 6th - played to today’s 15th green.

Today’s 16th, 17th and 18th holes represented the 7th, 8th and 9th respectively although, once again, these were all shorter. It would also seem that today’s dykes at the 1st and 18th were less threatening ditches, but, all in all, the course must have presented a considerable challenge to the players of the day.

The additional 9 holes built at the northern end in 1896 were entirely new and, while 6, 7, 8, 11, 12, 14 and 15 bear relation to today’s greens, (8 being 9 and 11 being 12), the layout was different.
The reorganisation of the layout conducted by Braid in 1919, following the ravages of World War 1, made 8 a new short hole, and created new holes at 10 and 11; and the modifications to 13, 14 and 15 are plain to see from a glance at the ‘Professional Opinions’ sketch created at the time.

Two other major redesigns have taken place since: the 4th, ‘Sandy Parlour’, was changed to enable the green to be visible from the tee. A new pulpit tee was built on the left of the 3rd green, and a new saucer green established below the 5th tee. At 151 yards, a much happier design.

Between the wars a ‘Ladies’ course was established - a 9 hole short course running from the Clubhouse parallel to the 1st and occupying the waste ground between the 2nd and Sandown Castle. The greens were small and the layout tight - premium was on correct clubbing. The ravages of the 1939 – 45 war, combined with the development of north Deal led to its total disappearance.

Following World War II, Sir Guy Campbell, aided by Henry Cotton, restored the course to substantially that laid out by Hunter and Braid, and play recommenced in 1946. Today, Donald Steel now adds his expertise to the grand design.



Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Deal Circa 1923
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2006, 04:32:19 AM »
Several of the holes show major string of cross bunkers off the tee 2, 5, 7, 12, 15, 17 none of these remain, I remember those on 12 & 17 but they have been filled in. Donald Steel the GCA was keen to remove the last of the bunkers 150-180 yards from the tee and add new bunkers further up the fairway his valid arguement was these bunkers only caught the weaker golfer making a difficult links even harder but did not affect the stronger player.

Tony - the green on the 6th used to be right on the beach surrounded on 3 sides by shingle. The green had to be built closer to the fairway on the same plateau due to the 1979 sea wall. Looking at the placement of the bunker to the left which is still there I think the artist has just drawn a straight line as the hole appears to have todays routing. Because the course is so long and narrow I believe your right about artistic licence to fit it all into the picture.

Joel - You are right about the "fairway" bunker on 8 no longer being there. I believe that it was likely to have been an area of wind blow or a split dune rather than a maintained bunker.

Bill - Sort out a date and IM me.

Tom - If you've been to WH you will remember the clubhouse is hard to pick out from ground level when you know where it is! It is build around the putting green but totally detached from the courses.
Cave Nil Vino