[Matthew Hunt]

Maybe instead of comparing how many majors Nicholas had won at his age we woul better comparing how many Billion Bill Gates, Donald Trump or Bill Byson had at his age

[John Kavanaugh]

you will need to explain your take on Joe and Golf Magazine.

JB, The recent best new issue, highlights where Mr. Passov wants to make his mark.

Both those recent awards were not the result of any panel. They were both attempts to scoop the competition.

I know for sure Sebonack wasn't eligible for either of the other publications 2006 ballot. I suspect EH was also too late to open to qualify, but on that I'mnot certain.

Joe and Brad are friends...maybe Joe declared Sebonack best new to help promote Brad's book.  As long as golf is being played on Sebonack and Erin Hills in 2006 it seems natural that they are eligible for awards in that year.  I don't think the average reader of magazines about golf wants to wait for a panel to get done traveling around the country before they hear about what is new and good.  I doubt that anyone would ever disagree that the individual write ups by Brad are better than anything his panel ever came up with...Why not give Joe the same respect.

The Bomb and Gauge guys that made their personal attack on Shaq, is evidence enough of the magazines total disregard for anything traditional. They are just seeking the bigger better deal. With the 10k yard course perfectly acceptable to their mindset.

I'm not familiar with this Bomb and Gauge thing...Please explain.

[Paul Payne]

Who really freaking cares?!?!?

Tiger is a brand much like Shark, Nicklaus, Trump, or Gucci.

We are not talking about GCA here anymore. Anyone who thinks so is naive about the world of business we live in today. If someone opened an Eddie Bauer golf resort and course tomorrow do you think it would get more than one snide thread here? Nobody slammed Norman for becomming a boat builder, in fact people marveled at his diverse interests. Do you think Arnold Palmer really cares about the cut a drape of fabric in his clothing line?

This doesn't mean that Tiger is completely disinterested in GCA. It doesn't mean that Tiger is not a decent human being. It doesn't mean that he is greedy. In fact I hope he becomes HUGE! might create a few more jobs.

In my mind this is a sillly excersise in our own self importance, trying to somehow interject ourselves into this enterprise called Tiger and feel like we made a difference. All that we should really hope for is that his corporation treats themselves and the world around them with fairness and respect. If the guy can accomplish that he is already ahead in my book.

 

[David Sucher]

"...this is a sillly excersise in our own self importance, trying to somehow interject ourselves into this enterprise called Tiger and feel like we made a difference. All that we should really hope for is that his corporation treats themselves and the world around them with fairness and respect."

I agree with the sentiments in the second sentence. So why not tell Tiger that we hope his enterprises treat "the world around them with fairness and respect."

I am a bit surprised that anyone would focus on the appropriateness of Klein's mild and respectful letter and ignore its substance, which is also mild and respectful and positive. Tiger is a major personality -- in every sense -- and can well take care of himself so I don't think we need to be so protective of him, (if that is what causes the criticism of the letter.)

[Geoffrey Childs]

tiger-cash the biggest checks you can.  let the academics sort out the rest.

Scott

When you are older, retired and looking back on your life and accomplishments I sorely hope that your legacy is not cashing big checks. Tiger with his Foundation and Learning Center certainly was taught differently by his parents.  I have confidence that he truly means that his accomplishments outside of tournament golf are more important to him.  Indeed he should cash many a big check and live his life in all the luxury and privacy his great accomplishments in golf have given him BUT at the end of the day we need to give back in proportion to the amount we take. I hope that Tiger copies Bill Gates and Ted Turner more then he does Michael Jordan.

[Jerry Kluger]

I question whether anyone with the means to develop a quality golf course in the United States would actually engage Tiger to design the course.  I know this statement might be summarily rejected by some but I think when one really considers the upside versus downside of such a venture, it is not a wise decision.  The only time it might make sense is if someone wants to build a super exclusive club near where Tiger lives and where he is likely to practice and play.  Other than that circumstance, I don't believe that it will result in a product that will have greater marketability than a Jack Nicklaus, Tom Fazio, Pete Dye, etc. course.  Besides which you could wind up with the issues that were seen in the early Nicklaus courses as well as the questionable designs of Greg Norman.  

[Dan Kelly]

I am a bit surprised that anyone would focus on the appropriateness of Klein's mild and respectful letter and ignore its substance...

Oh, my, you ARE a Newbie, aren't you!

Welcome.

[Adam Clayman]

Jb, Go to Geoff's site and look for the bomb and gauge reference. You can also look for bip and glop.

[Phil McDade]

I'm discouraged that Tiger has embarked on the path of accepting his first design commission from the Shieks.  It is a strong indication of where his interests lay in the area of GCD, not GCA.  It is big biz, big bucks, cater to the wealthy, let IMG and the entourage feed at the trough that relies on Tiger to keep the feast going.  In a way, it is a tough position that I think Tiger finds himself with so many people dependent on his image and marketing.  Everyone wants a piece of him, or wants a few of the crumbs that fall around him.  He is so obviously  busy and has so little time, I would think you would have to be totally naive to think that Tiger is going to spend any serious time designing any golf courses anywhere while in his prime playing years.  

Like the Nicklaus before him, a subsidiary of Tiger's world-wide empire will spring up and be called Tiger somthing or other golf course design (just like the Golden Bear Enterprises).  He will fly in with the rolled up plans, point dreamily to the horizon as if pointing out the route to the next great undiscovered golf hole, and come back months later to hit the ceremonial first tee ball, then too-da-loo, off to Shangri-la for the next Tiger designed course opening.  

Why would a guy that makes more money in an hour than most of us will make in years, sit at a drafting table, or computer, or spend hot dry and dusty miserable afternoons in the field waving his arms at the shapers on equipment?  He he is anywhere near the site, he is going to be comfortably ensconced in a 5 star suite bungalow of the equally wealthy site developer, or renting a nearby mansion, cooling his heels with a gorgeous wifey, and maybe a few little cubs running around.  The future "pops" will take an hour away from the fam, go to the site for the photo op, wave his hands a couple of times, tell the crew they are doing a good job, and then go back to the hacienda for a late afternooner.  

We can all fantacize about the uniquely original golf course that the most brilliant player ever could design from his imaginative mind.  But, com'mon gents, it ain't going to happen like you (or I) dream.    He isn't going to come up with some sort of hole designs that will set the world on its ear like nothing else that has ever been done.  

Brad, nice try, but I think it is in deed the issue of a pesky insect buzzing around Tiger's head.  I'm sure he or his staff have your number - allong with the number of any actual great architect living today - and will call when he gets stuck for an idea.  He might even be able to channel the "Good Dr."  

Dick:

Well, maybe, and maybe not. Part of what makes me have some hope about Tiger designing courses is -- perhaps this is a stretch -- his academic support center in Anaheim. Maybe he's just burnishing his image in creating something like that for young students near where he grew up, but I think a part of it (perhaps the driving force behind it) is that he wants to do something beyond just being known as the best player ever to play the game. He values the importance of education (drilled into him moreso by his mother than his father), and thinks his support center is one small but significant way to help others who may not have had the support he did growing up.

Likewise, didn't Tiger learn the game, very early on, at a public par 3 course? One of the things I'd like to see him do is set up and design a bunch of low-cost but architecturally interesting 9-hole, par 3/4 courses where kids at a very early age (8-10?) could take up the game with a parent or mentor. Just a guess here, but since Tiger's been pretty savvy about how to build his golf career, maybe he'll be pretty savvy about how to build a golf architecture career. Maybe he sees a profitable deal with the shieks as being one way to build up some cash to do other less-notable but no less important projects down the road.

[Matt MacIver]

Tiger's a smart guy, and I think he's going to try his hand at GCA in the best way he can.  Which for now means 1) being a full-time record-chasing golfing marvel; 2) selling Buicks and credit cards in his off-time; 3) skiing and scuba-ing; 4) "designing" golf courses.  

When he touches down on-site he'll already have reviewed a 50- page executive summary of the project, including the completed routing.  He will then spend time in the field and office going over the strategy of each hole -- bunker here, slope of green there, etc.  30 minutes each hole, tops.  

Wheels up and come back for the grand opening -- which, if the owner wants him there, must be arranged around #1-3 above.  

This is the reality of his life today.  Guess he could have waited until he "retired" to participate more fully, but why?  If I were in his shoes, I wouldn't.  He's probably planning on surrounding himself with whoever he trusts and thinks is the best and will let 'er fly.  Good luck I say.  

[Dan_Callahan]

I guess that what bugs me about this is the conjecture. It's like watching a football game on TV and hearing Theismann predict that the next play will be a run. Okay, mabe he's right and maybe he's wrong, but the exercise is unnecesary. We could simply wait for 30 seconds and find out with 100% accuracy.

The same is true for Tiger. Rather than lecturing him on what he should or shouldn't do, how about finding some patience and waiting to see how it all turns out. Once he has a product, I think he is open to criticism as would be anyone else.

[A.G._Crockett]

I guess that what bugs me about this is the conjecture. It's like watching a football game on TV and hearing Theismann predict that the next play will be a run. Okay, mabe he's right and maybe he's wrong, but the exercise is unnecesary. We could simply wait for 30 seconds and find out with 100% accuracy.

The same is true for Tiger. Rather than lecturing him on what he should or shouldn't do, how about finding some patience and waiting to see how it all turns out. Once he has a product, I think he is open to criticism as would be anyone else.

So, Dan, not to be a smart-ass or anything like that, but why'd you read this thread and post?

[Dan_Callahan]

I try to read just about every thread on here, at least the first few posts to them. You never know when you will learn from an unexpected source. I guess it's the same reason I listen to Theismann rather than turning down the volume. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once and a while.

[RJ_Daley]

Dan and A.G., it is sort of like "that is why they play the games"    Even Joe Theisman can't help himself from interjecting his experience and thinking on what the next play ought to be.  Similarly, we golf course architecture fans can't help but give Tiger our passionate advice, or express our skepticism as to the depth of his involvment.  It is because we are fans.  Brad Klein is a huge fan as well as a professional in the golf pub biz.  I can understand why he, and we all have a take.  We just throw those takes out there and hope they don't suck.  

Don't you all secretly wish Tiger would just call you and say something like, "gee, I was reading your comments on GCA.com, and I never thought of it that way... thanks for the advice, I'm going to follow it".  

[Adam Clayman]

Lorne paints some vivid imagery here.

http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061219.wsptrube18/GSStory/GlobeSportsGolf/home

Doobie doobie do

[RJ_Daley]

Thanks for the link Adam!

Dubai or not Dubai, that is the question.

That may be my favorite GCA quote of the year...

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