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[JMorgan]

Does anyone have pictures of this Colt/Alison course that they can share with the DG?  Thanks and  .

[Phil McDade]

James:

A link to the aerial from the GCA series:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=4334

Not sure of the date of the photo; sbviously some work was being done there, and I've heard they've undergone some -- don't know the extent -- tree cutting.

[JMorgan]

Thanks much, Phil.  I'm sure I can dig up some recent pics from the course to compare with the archived stuff.

[Brian_Sleeman]

I've got some stashed away somewhere - when I get a chance I'll put them up in this thread.

[JMorgan]

I've got some stashed away somewhere - when I get a chance I'll put them up in this thread.

Excellent... thanks, Brian.  I appreciate it.  

[Brian_Sleeman]

I'm iffy on some of the hole numbers, but for the most part remember them well.  I failed to take photos on some of the more memorable holes (the first two in particular are worthy of mention), and I hope to rectify that with a return visit at some point.  I have a few more available but these are the best from my last trek around.  It should be noted that these were taken in November of 2004, and I hear some work has been done since then.


Somewhere in the middle of the front nine.


I think this is #6 - tough par four up the hill.


An example of one of the great, reachable par five's - the ideal aggressive line is right over the bunker for a better angle and shorter distance into the green.  I'm fairly sure this is #7.


Guessing this is the 8th, a par three surrounded by some very deep bunkers.  That deep, well-rounded style is prevalent throughout the course.


The short, uphill par four 9th.  Blast driver up the left side to get close and leave a demanding pitch, or lay up to the fatter section of fairway near the fairway bunker for a full shot.


A closer look at the approach.  This does not do justice to the false front but you can get some idea of how deep that front right bunker is by looking at the flagstick for relativity.


The long approach on the slight dogleg-right, par five 10th.  Note the Milwaukee River deep and to the left of the green.


A look at some of the work going on with the many bunkers on the left side of the par four 11th.  If I remember right, a smashed tee shot can challenge that side for a closer approach to the tabletop green.  The smart play is to the wide fairway to the right of these.


The long par three 12th (200+ yards, somewhere in there).  The Milwaukee River is right in front of you.


The corner of the dogleg-right par four 13th.  Note the depth of the bunker short left of the green in the distance.


The tee shot at the par five 15th.  The bunkers in the distance run in a diagonal line from near-left to far-right.  Therefore, an aggressive tee shot challenging the bunkers should be down the left, and a layup should be directed short right.  Great feature.


A closer look at those bunkers.  Another great, reachable par five - exciting stuff.


One of the toughest long par threes I've ever played.  The ideal play is a soft cut, though the ball will chase from front left to right, as the green is fairly well tilted to the right.


The menacing 18th.  When we played, it was into the wind, and a drive over the bunker on the left was impossible.  Bailing out to the right left a very long approach.


The round concludes with a difficult approach to a wild and large green.  The beautiful and warm clubhouse awaits.


A closer look at the 18th green.

[JMorgan]

I'm iffy on some of the hole numbers, but for the most part remember them well.  I failed to take photos on some of the more memorable holes (the first two in particular are worthy of mention), and I hope to rectify that with a return visit at some point.  I have a few more available but these are the best from my last trek around.  It should be noted that these were taken in November of 2004, and I hear some work has been done since then.

Brian, thanks for posting the pictures.

[Pat Craig]

Wow, I only live about an hour's drive away and while I have heard some great things about Milwaukee CC I had never seen any pictures...looks like a really neat place.

Thanks for posting those pics Brian!

[Phil McDade]

A guy I used to work with -- and a very good golfer (one-time city champ in Madison) who had played probably every top-level course in Wisconsin, public and private -- said that Milwaukee CC was the best course in the state, by a pretty good margin.

I have not played it, but it has a very strong reputation and brings the Milwaukee River into play on at least a couple of holes. Any thoughts on the bunkering and the origins of the course? It was I believe either a Colt/Alison or Alison-alone design.

[Jeff Goldman]

I have not played it, but it has a very strong reputation and brings the Milwaukee River into play on at least a couple of holes. Any thoughts on the bunkering and the origins of the course? It was I believe either a Colt/Alison or Alison-alone design.

I believe that it is mostly original or restored Allison, with some work by RT Jones, which is about the best renovation work I have seen from him.  My recollection from a conversation with Pat Sisk, the terrific Super there who very occasionally posts here, is that Jones is responsible for the great 9th hole and the fairway bunkering in the pic above labeled 13.  

I think they enlisted Arthur Hills rebuild one of the par 5s to improve the range a few years ago, and my understanding (not from Pat) is that within a few months he was trying to fix it.  Nowadays I think they have Tom Doak consulting.  Holding the Mid-Am in 2008.

Jeff Goldman

[ed_getka]

If Milwaukee CC is the best course in Wisc. "by a wide margin", it must be a heck of a course, because Lawsonia is pretty impressive.

[RJ_Daley]

I've heard that Loren Roberts, who seems to have consistent success at the Greater Milwaukee Open (now US Bank) which is held just down the street at Brown Deer GC, has often stayed there at Milwaukee CC in a guest room during tournament week.  He is reportedly quite fond of the course, and has spoken very highly of it.

[SL_Solow]

Based on the date it was built, Milwaukee is an Alison as it coincides with a visit and was built long after Colt's final visit to the USA.

[Dan Moore]

Growing up in the north burbs of Milwaukee there were 3 courses that everyone always compared.

Milwaukee CC (Alison):  old $$, docs and dentists

Ozaukee CC (Langford and Moreau):  docs and dentists

Brown Deer GC (Hansen-current site of PGA's GMO):  beer drinkers and cigar smokers

Milwaukee was generally considered the best course.

Ozaukee was reknowned for its devilish Langford and Moreau greens

Brown Deer had the $4 green fee and the infamous 5th hole, a 155 yd par 3 that had a green that was so steep back to front that 5 putts were common.  Of course the PGA couldn't have that and it was ploughed under and replaced by a conventional flat par 3 designed by Wisconsin's own Andy North.    

A tour of "Milwaukee's Best" with Blue Mound and Erin Hills added to the mix may be in order for 2007.  

[Dan Kelly]

Does the style of the bunker in the first picture look unlike the style of almost every other bunker shown?

The first one caught my eye, because it looks (to me) exactly like the new bunkers being built at Interlachen, which I've seen from the vantage point of Interlachen Boulevard.

[Brian_Sleeman]

Dan: I think that look may be due more to the amount of shade in that photo - it's hard to see how high the lip actually goes.  It doesn't go quite as high as some others, but you'll see little fingers that drop down into several of the bunkers throughout the course.

I'm also not surprised Loren Roberts is a big fan - he probably sweeps them in from everywhere on those large, subtle, fast greens.

[cary lichtenstein]

I thought #10 was the best hole on the course

[wsmorrison]

Cary,

Try not to get bogged down in so much detail, you're losing some of us with short attention spans.  

Seriously though, care to comment on why the 10th is the "best hole on the course?"  The photograph makes the green seem like it is benched into a very steep hill and looks very engineered and more than a bit contrived.

[cary lichtenstein]

Cary,

Try not to get bogged down in so much detail, you're losing some of us with short attention spans.  

Seriously though, care to comment on why the 10th is the "best hole on the course?"  The photograph makes the green seem like it is benched into a very steep hill and looks very engineered and more than a bit contrived.

Sorry, you have to hit your drive on the left side of the fairway, and I hit a good drive and had a 4 wood into the green that can only be hit with a fade, and I hit it right to left.

While I managed to hit the green, the green is quite severe and i three putted after spending alot of time reading the putt.

I thought the hole called for a lot of stragety and I lacked the reading skill to negotiate a 2 putt.

[Joe Hancock]

Brian,

Take a guess at what feature(s) on the "menacing 18th" picture that I dislike?

Joe

[SBendelow]

Does anyone have a defintitive date as to when Colt may have layed out Milwaukee CC?  I have some info that indicates that Tom Bendelow was there in 1894-95.

[RJ_Daley]

Stuart, do you think that the work attributed to Tom Bendelow at MCC is the same as referred to in Cornish and Whitten, stating it NLE from 1903?  Perhaps his work there started in 1895 or so, and C&W use the finishing date.  The same holds for Blue Mound 9 NLE attributed to T.B.  And, it also shows MCC remodelled by T.B.  

I suspect that like so many others, T.B. was the first to lay out a course on famous sites, where another archies came in to take an early club effort to a more grand level as the game became more popular and the wealthy class of people started wanting to upgrade to keep up with technology-distance issues as well as keep up with the society aspects of country club life.  

[SBendelow]

Not knowing the particulars of C&W's reference I can't offer a very knowledgeable assessment of their citation.  The observation you make seems quite plausable.  The one additional reference I have indicating TB's presence at MCC is a 1926 listing of courses that TB complied while with the American Park Builders.  I wish he had been a better bookkeeper!

[Dschmidt]

Geez, forget Milwaukee!

Forget Medinah.

Forget Big Foot.

We've got Stuart Bendelow here and there is only one thing that matters:

Do you have any evidence that Tom Bendelow designed Peter Jans Golf Club in Evanston, Illinois a/k/a Canal Shore a/k/a Jans National a/k/a The Honourable Company of Reverse Jans Golfers?

Cornish & Whitten list TB, and inquiring minds wanna know!

[SBendelow]

Again referencing TB's 1926 document, he lists the Evanston Community Golf Club as one of his plans.  Was that name later changed to the Peter N. Jans Community Golf Course?

In a brief conversation I had with Terry Govern in 2005 at the PJCGC, he too felt that TB had had a hand in the course's design as a part of the American Park Builders organization.

In C&W's 1987 edition of the "Golf Course", they list 1916 as the year of construction of the Peter Jans course.  If that date raises questions, someone should be able to dig into the historic records of the City of Evanston to find the answer.    

[Tom_Doak]

Stuart B:  I believe that Tom Bendelow's version of Milwaukee CC was at a different site, but I will have to confirm that next week when I'm in the office and can double-check the club history.

The interesting part is that C.H. Alison's course built in 1926 was an entirely new layout built over the top of a Walter Travis design which was in place only a few years.  I don't know too much about how that came to pass, only that the Alison design was completely different.

[Tom Roewer]

Stuart:  Nice to see you here. Welcome!  I'm with Shivas in wanting to know about P.J.  It is easily one of my favorite routings

[SBendelow]

Tom Doak: Thanks for your input, I would definitely be interested in what you find out about MCC.  In the years I have been digging into TB's history I have found the "club" histories as fascinating, if not more so, than the "course" histories.  It is unfortunate that all too often both suffered from poor documentation.

At MCC, they actually obliterated a Walter Travis designed course in favor of another?  Thats interesting!

PS.  C&W do cite two MCC locations.

[Mike McGuire]

Milwaukee CC has an outstanding history book done for their centennial.  

The genesis of the club was NOV 1894 when E.W. Cramer, a transplanted Milwaukeean , invited 3 Milwaukee friends to play Chicago Golf Club (Belmont course)

The group returned home and laid out a crude course in a pasture, where UW-Milwaukee now sits.  In 1895 the club was formed. A new 6 hole course slightly north was laid out by the members in 1895.

1898 Herbert Tweedie developed it to 9 holes.

In 1910 the club moved to its present location.  According to the book " The first course on the new grounds was designed by committee.  Tom Bendelow, the Scottish-born pro who had laid out Blue Mound's first links, was the nominal expert, but he had ample "assistance" from Alex Robertson, the Club's pro, and an assortment of members,"

later....... " Alex Robertson's preliminary layout, as modified by Gardner Kellogg, was the ultimate winner" The course opened in 1911.

In 1924 the club purchased 77 acres of land adjacent to the course.  They hired Walter Travis to draw plans for a new course. The books surmises Travis did not even visit the site. The new course was opened in may 1926.

 In 1927 prominent members called complete overhaul of the course and clubhouse. In 1928 Colt and Alison were hired. Alison did all the design work. Work was completed in 1929.

Robert Trent Jones did  a remodeling design in 1974. No routing changes, mostly longer tees and some bunker work.

The book includes an insert with the various courses overlaid on see through paper so you can see how the routings have changed.

[SBendelow]

Mike:  Thank you for the historic clarification.

[Michael Christensen]

glad someone posted the history from their centennial book....I have the book too and it is one of the best...great pics, great stories and the overlays are phenomenal.