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Jay Flemma

Re:Very short par 4s
« Reply #50 on: January 08, 2007, 02:09:02 PM »
Both Mike Strantz and Jim engh loved short par-4s...the more options you can put in the design. , according to both.   "More sex appeal" Engh said.

Andrew Hastie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Very short par 4s
« Reply #51 on: January 08, 2007, 04:17:27 PM »
Garland,
You were indeed right the correct yardage is 280 yards not 288.But the big difference is the angle.My excuses for the mistake

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Very short par 4s
« Reply #52 on: January 08, 2007, 04:51:02 PM »
I can't believe Phillips hasn't yet waded in with Kingsbarns #6.
Oh sure, 337, 318 and 287 off Black, White and Green respectively, but shirley ye'll allow a fellow a few yards amangst friends???
Just a brilliant golf hole. Tempting, teasing, makeable in the right conditions. A heartbreaker in others.
Risk/reward, strategy, luck, design and construction in a nutshell.

FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Very short par 4s
« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2007, 02:59:16 AM »
C'mon Martin, if we start allowing a few extra yards here, then a few more there, or counting yardages from forward tees, pretty soon someone is arguing that a 400 yard hole is "very short" because its played downhill on firm ground with a strong prevailing following wind ;)
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Very short par 4s
« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2007, 07:46:45 AM »
Does Swinley Forest have cart paths now?   >:(  

And, Martin, while I really admire Kingsbarns I am not a big fan of that sixth hole.  A blind creek just behind the green would make any hole tough, but I think it's beyond the pale.  (And I did make three there in the Dunhill, so this is not just sour grapes.)
« Last Edit: January 09, 2007, 07:49:03 AM by Tom_Doak »

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Very short par 4s
« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2007, 07:56:10 AM »
Does Swinley Forest have cart paths now?   >:(  


God I hope not.  

Some of the heath courses have gravel paths off the tee to help save the heather from trampling.  But Swinley isn't exactly swamped with play.

I think the path on the left is for maintenance vehicles?
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

RT

Re:Very short par 4s
« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2007, 08:01:57 AM »
10-4 on the path left for maintenance

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Very short par 4s
« Reply #57 on: January 09, 2007, 08:33:59 AM »
Does Swinley Forest have cart paths now?   >:(  

And, Martin, while I really admire Kingsbarns I am not a big fan of that sixth hole.  A blind creek just behind the green would make any hole tough, but I think it's beyond the pale.  (And I did make three there in the Dunhill, so this is not just sour grapes.)

Tom,
in a couple of seasons caddying at KB, I think I saw maybe one ball in the 'creek'. Did you feel the same about the creek at #16, which for me is even MORE daft, as it's completely blind, surrounds half the green and catches a helluva lot more balls than at #6.

However, agreed, it brings nothing to the play of the hole at all and really should have been covered over again at that point. I think they got a bit carried away with exposing the old napoleonic prisoner-of-war built land-drain because of the history and the discovery of the old toll-bridge in front of the green at 18.

Call it shrewd marketing, but when you're building a new course on an old site, some folks will do anything to add some history. Would/n't you??? Heckers, one MAD GCA of this ilk (and you know who you are!), creates FAUX-old/new/old features to confuse and generally bamboozle the poor visiting golfer. I must confess to having great admiration for the man's nerve, but then again baroque mannerism was always amongst my favourites!

FBD.

PS Nice Birdie, BTW. On in one and two putts, perchance???
« Last Edit: January 09, 2007, 08:45:47 AM by Martin Bonnar »
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Andrew Hastie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Very short par 4s
« Reply #58 on: January 09, 2007, 08:47:25 AM »
Does Swinley Forest have cart paths now?   >:(  

And, Martin, while I really admire Kingsbarns I am not a big fan of that sixth hole.  A blind creek just behind the green would make any hole tough, but I think it's beyond the pale.  (And I did make three there in the Dunhill, so this is not just sour grapes.)

I played SwinleyForest for the first time last October but if you compare photos you see there have certainly been some paths added.They haven't put in tee to green paths.


Photo from this site.

Photo from October 2006

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Very short par 4s
« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2007, 06:09:14 AM »
I have always enjoyed the short par-4. It doesn't really bother me — especially at daily fee or resort settings — to have drivable holes. While it presents some pace issues, they are still fun and most people have a ball.

Nos. 15 and 16 at Phantom Horse (Phoenix) are two back-to-back holes I created 20 years ago. They still stand tall and give up few birdies...despite the appearance of "shortcomings".



« Last Edit: January 10, 2007, 06:13:58 AM by Forrest Richardson »
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

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