The Best courses you dont hear about...

« **Reply #25 on:** December 15, 2006, 05:45:57 PM »

Almost hate to mention it ... I think the member like flying under the radar.
Tavistock CC, Tavistock (Haddonfield) NJ
-- I can't believe I beat JSlonis to the post --
1921 Alex Findlay Design
under restoration now.
Can't wait for it to re-open next summer.
Great course ... even BETTER club.

It's the course I grew up on. Love it.
I play out of course in PA now and whenever I mention Tavistock, most haven't heard about it ... then 2 weeks I hear they were in a trounment and lost to a guy from Tavistock. Victim on JSlonis, or one of the other GAP Team Champions of the last 3 years I presume.

Can you tell I miss playing it as often as I once did ?

« **Reply #26 on:** December 15, 2006, 05:57:50 PM »

Muskegon Country Club in Muskegon, MI. It was the first course Ross did in Michigan. Only 6500 yards (par 71) but plays tough enough to be the host site for the Michigan Am in 2005. Most of the difficulty of the course comes from the ever-present winds that swirl off nearby Lake Michigan and Muskegon Lake and a set of quick greens. Most fairways are lined by some heather that depending on the amount of rain the area gets, can get pretty thick. Just a solid golf course on a nice piece of property and relatively inexpensive to join. I wish we had something like it on my side of the state.

« **Reply #27 on:** December 15, 2006, 06:06:42 PM »

Speaking of Lake Merced, it is in the shadows of SFGC and Olympic but I think it is a good test of golf.

« **Reply #28 on:** December 15, 2006, 06:16:29 PM »

Quote from: Mike Benham on December 15, 2006, 06:06:42 PM

Speaking of Lake Merced, it is in the shadows of SFGC and Olympic but I think it is a good test of golf.

Concur. It just suffers due to proximity to those two greats. And I also found it to be pretty darn fun... damn I miss Mike Golden.

« **Reply #29 on:** December 15, 2006, 06:39:00 PM »

Knollwood Club in Lake Forest, Illinois. The greens are brilliant although of course you can't see that from the satellite photo. (Link below)

http://tinyurl.com/y8b33a

« **Reply #30 on:** December 15, 2006, 06:58:42 PM »

The best course that hardly anybody knows about, save Tom Paul and Hammy is Indian Creek in Miami, FL. Now I know the club is more than happy that nobody has a clue what a great golf course and club lie on that little island of $40 million homes, but it is incredible. A tour de force in man made architecture looking completely natural and it might be the greatest course in the world in visual deception. Is it better than Seminole? I think many would be surprised where golfers that know both courses well would be on that question.

Another nominee, a Flynn as most would guess, is The Country Club of Pepper Pike, Ohio. There are a bunch of real solid holes and some world class ones, like the 15th and 17th.

TCC, Pepper Pike 17th approach

« **Reply #31 on:** December 15, 2006, 07:09:23 PM »

it's worth a trip to Bluemound just to see it's punchbowl green

and while Knollwood is good, I believe they are going to do some work on it which will make it even better

and thanks Wayne for the PP picture....I gotta get there someday!

« **Reply #32 on:** December 15, 2006, 07:21:59 PM »

Paul,

Here's the tee shot on the 17th:

Both the front and rear fairway lines come into play big time!

Here is an aerial of the approach to the 15th:

« **Reply #33 on:** December 15, 2006, 09:46:05 PM »

Some really good courses you don't hear about-
West Bend (front nine), north of Blue Mound and more fun.
Gateway(Ft.Myers,FL) some of the best work from the Fazio crew.
The Hideout in Naples, recently experienced by Mr. and Mrs. Redanman.
Black Forest, my favorite Doak in Michigan.
Second the nomination of Rancho Santa Fe, Indian Creek and Monroe Muny.
We could also include a number of courses on Long Island- nassau, garden city cc, sands point, cherry valley, etc.
Since Jordan asked- how about Sudden Valley?

« **Reply #34 on:** December 15, 2006, 10:52:19 PM »

I'll have to second both Muskegon CC and Knollwood in Chicago. MCC is on a great piece of ground. Sandy base (it is less than a mile from Lake Michigan) rolling hills and great short par fours, tricky par threes and fun Par fives.
Knollwood is almost unknown outside of Chicago. The course may not be great but it has some of the best greens around. Seems to me they are poa annua. It is a great club, understated like Shoreacres yet pretty exclusive.

« **Reply #35 on:** December 15, 2006, 10:59:56 PM »

Rancho Santa Fe and Boca Rio are two terrific courses that fly under the radar most of the time.

« **Reply #36 on:** December 15, 2006, 11:34:28 PM »

There is another in Rancho Santa Fe. It is the Farms at Rancho Santa Fe. It is a Tom Lehman redesing. It is great fun and worth some mention.

« **Reply #37 on:** December 16, 2006, 08:31:52 AM »

Jordan:

Blue Mound has been reworked by my associate Bruce Hepner, and he is finally "finished" with it after about eight years. They had to remove a zillion trees and double the size of some greens to restore it. The property is not as dramatic as many of Raynor's other courses but it is pretty good, and certainly a much less cluttered experience than when I wrote my review of it in The Confidential Guide many years ago.

However it is not another Crystal Downs as Jeff suggests. I can't imagine there are any more 9's or 10's out there that just need to be dusted off, although there are a couple like Lido and Timber Point that are past the point of no return. There are tons of cool 6's and possibly 7's on the Doak scale, though, which are more fun and have more character than the hundreds of 6's and 7's being churned out by modern designers. Maybe I need to make a better distinction there.

« **Reply #38 on:** December 16, 2006, 09:10:22 AM »

Tom, it would be great to know and it might even help certain memberships in their long term planning if they new they had a potential Doak 7 being hidden by trees and small greens..... as a 5 or 6. YH of the past and Sleepy Hollow today are I believe 2 good examples. Lucky for SH they finally got it and turned the long term project over to a team that seems to being doing something quite special, and for less money than the prior master plan I believe.

« **Reply #39 on:** December 16, 2006, 12:06:07 PM »

Jordan,

Have you played Royal Oaks in Vancouver, WA?

I think it has gotten some pub on a best in state list, but it seems to fly under the radar a lot in these parts.

I don't know that much on the history. I think Muir Graves was involved a number of years ago. And Tiger won a big NW amateur event there.

It is a great course and home to one of my infamous 4 putts!

« **Reply #40 on:** December 16, 2006, 07:04:34 PM »

Quote from: Jeff Doerr on December 16, 2006, 12:06:07 PM

Jordan,

Have you played Royal Oaks in Vancouver, WA?

I think it has gotten some pub on a best in state list, but it seems to fly under the radar a lot in these parts.

I don't know that much on the history. I think Muir Graves was involved a number of years ago. And Tiger won a big NW amateur event there.

It is a great course and home to one of my infamous 4 putts!

Jeff,

Is that the 9-hole course in Vancouver?

I have never played it before.
Maybe its worth checking out...

Jordan

« **Reply #41 on:** December 16, 2006, 07:23:46 PM »

Jordon,

Not the 9 hole course, plays to about 6800 from the tips. Great parkland course right off 205 near the Westfield Mall.

« **Reply #42 on:** December 17, 2006, 12:24:10 AM »

ID nominate Franklin Hills CC in Franklin MI. I know some on here know of it but its pretty unknown overall. Donald Ross 1926 "restored" (but not really) by Ron Pritchard 2004

« **Reply #43 on:** December 17, 2006, 12:31:50 AM »

Quote from: McCloskey on December 15, 2006, 10:35:08 AM

I'll suggest Spring Creek Ranch in Collierville, Tennessee, a suburb of Memphis.
It will be the home of the Memphis Open in 2008.
A Jack Nicklaus hidden gem.

Is Spring Creek Ranch public or private? I grew up in Memphis, and I still make it back several times a year. I remember hearing something about this course being built, but that faded from my memory the longer I've been away.

« **Reply #44 on:** December 17, 2006, 06:04:43 AM »

Indianwood Old outside of Detroit is very good.

« **Reply #45 on:** December 17, 2006, 09:07:46 AM »

Waterwood National... just N of Houston. This was a course I will always remember, Pete Dye and his brother I think.

« **Reply #46 on:** December 17, 2006, 10:45:16 PM »

anything by Fazio.

« **Reply #47 on:** December 28, 2006, 04:50:22 PM »

Indian Canyon in Spokane, WA designed by H. Chandler Egan. It hosted three Usga events and is a real fun course, even though its very short, approx 6200 from the back tees.

Its tight and very much a right to left players kind of course. The greens are old school and from some places 3 putting isn't that bad!

http://www.spokanegolf.org/courses/indiancanyon/

« **Reply #48 on:** December 28, 2006, 05:54:58 PM »

Quote from: Tom_Doak on December 16, 2006, 08:31:52 AM

However it is not another Crystal Downs as Jeff suggests. I can't imagine there are any more 9's or 10's out there that just need to be dusted off, although there are a couple like Lido and Timber Point that are past the point of no return.

Tom

Timber Point is all there to restore if only the will to do so returns along with a bit of $$$. The town does not know what they potentiall could control if they only reversed what was done. The land and topography is all still intact so in that sense it is not past the point of no return.

« **Reply #49 on:** December 28, 2006, 06:27:39 PM »

Adrian,

Actually Waterwood Natl. was a Roy Dye course.

He asked Pete to send him over a guy to help finish it as Roys original site guy had a bit of a problem with the old you know what story.

The guy Pete sent over to finish it, Bill Coore.

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