Two great heathland holes in one picture

[Noel Freeman]

Can anyone name where I am in this pic (that is me on the green with Paul Turner having taken the shot)??.. This place flies way under the radar and the hole you see is a two shot redan (no CB Mac didnt design it).. It is easy to see how the ground works in a draw to a fallaway green strategy.. This is a stout par 4 at 440 yards and was one of Henry Cotton's top 18 in the British Isles..

The next hole also has terrific bunkering..

[Noel Freeman]

Here is another pic of the 2 shot redan...

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Yes, I know it, but I won't spoil the fun for others.

[JESII]

I do not know, but it might help if you indicated whether or not CBM advised on the project or exerted some influence on the architect...

[Mike_Cirba]

I do not know, but it might help if you indicated whether or not CBM advised on the project or exerted some influence on the architect...

Noel,

That looks more like Whigham's work to me.  

[JESII]

Let's see if we can get Tom and Wayne over there to cover those tracks...can't have any credit going to CBM now.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

The 7th is a great hole, too.  Any more pics?  I'd love to see them.  I've not managed to take any there - the last time I was there I didn't have a workable camera and it was a glorious late summer/early autumn afternoon with a fabulous sunset and deer out on the course fearlessly.  What a shame!

[Noel Freeman]

I do not know, but it might help if you indicated whether or not CBM advised on the project or exerted some influence on the architect...

That was just a joke b/c everytime on this site someone talks about a Redan and it isnt N. Berwick they say CB Mac/Raynor did it.. (insert Merion thread here)

[JESII]

Noel,

Please...I am knee deep in that sh*t show on the Merion thread...I was carrying the joke over here...I apologize for the re-direct.

I can't really venture a guess at the location but I can say that I love bunkering like that distant hole in your picture. The bunkering a bit short of the green to be specific.

[Noel Freeman]

Bournemouth UK is home to the Bournemouth trio, Parkstone, Isle of Purbeck and BROADSTONE (which is what this thread is about).. A great great course by Harry Colt that absolutely no body on this site talks about.. As far as I know only Paul Turner, myself and Rowlie have been there..

Here are some more pix--

[Brad Tufts]

That "two-shot redan" approach looks like pics I've seen of #13 at PV...the hazard is deeper on the left, but seems to be more easily recoverable...

[Noel Freeman]

That "two-shot redan" approach looks like pics I've seen of #13 at PV...the hazard is deeper on the left, but seems to be more easily recoverable...

Hmmm Brad.. I didnt want to open up that can of worms.. Broadstone was done in 1914 or should I say redesigned by Colt.. The hole is similar in ethos and spirit to 13 at PV.. I wonder who came up with that idea.  Paging Paul Turner!!

[Tim Pitner]

Looks fantastic.  Is there any reason why no one talks about Broadstone?  

Where exactly is Bournemouth?

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Tim, Bournemouth is on the south coast of England, and there's another useful course at Ferndown (Harold Hilton, I think).  The town is an oldies' retirement centre, but these courses are certainly not for the unfit!  Broadstone is the pick of the bunch.  Parkstone has some cracking holes and is very active in reintroducing lost heathland, cutting down numbers of trees, to open up the original vistas.  If anyone ever goes there seek out the club president, Dr Donald Holmes - he knows all there is to know about the club and course.  Isle of Purbeck has a great setting, overlooking Poole Harbour, and enjoys one of the most spectacularly beautiful holes in England, the 5th, but there are some indifferent holes, too.  Ferndown's par 4s would today be too short for you young men, but it's ideal for me.  There is much intriguing bunkering and a number of wicked greens, especially the 16th - one of the most devious greens you will ever encounter.  It is too many years, now, since I played Sherborne, but I remember it with affection.  Has anyone played it more recently?

[Larry_Keltto]

Noel, thanks for the find and the photos.

The depth of high-quality golf in England continues to amaze me.

Did you go over from Deal, or straight down from London? I think a tour of courses along the southern coast would be fantasic.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Larry, the only trouble with the south coast is that there is a big gap between Rye and the Bournemouth courses with only Hayling and Stoneham worth playing just off the main road - perhaps Worthing, too.  But it is not far to move inland from Rye before travelling west, when you can then take in Crowborough, Royal Ashdown, West Sussex, Liphook, Blackmoor before shooting down the M3 towards Southampton and on through the New Forest.  

[Noel Freeman]

The trip to Bournemouth was one of the best golf trips of my life.. Paul Turner picked me up at Gatwick.. We drove up north to play Brancaster, Hunstanton, Royal Worlington and then went south circumnavigating London to play Bournemouth, Parkstone and visit Meyrick Park.  We then went to Cornwall and played St. Enodoc, Perranporth and Trevose.. Quite a nice trip and an itinerary I dont think anyone replicates..

Larry-- One can play Deal in the AM, Rye in the PM (during the summer) and make it for drinks in Poole (near Bournemouth).. It was there that I saw a gaggle of seven hens ogle over Paul Turner.. The only problem was the lightest among them was oh about 90 kilos...

[Gary Slatter]

I got to play that course in 1968 with Ken Bowden and John Jacobs walked with us. Also played a course with "Queens" in the name, very hilly, near Poole.  Nice part of the UK far from the beaten tracks.

[Chris_Clouser]

Noel,

I was curious about a couple of things that perhaps you can provide some insight that we might all enjoy.

How much of Dunn's layout still exists at Meyrick Park?  I would guess little to none, but was wondering if you found out anything on that.

Also, Parkstone seems to be a unique course in one regard.  Several of the par fives have no bunkers, 3, 11 and 17 to be precise.  How did these holes come across?  Also, I have read that the 9th has some similarities to the Road Hole.  Considering Braid laid out the hole, I could see how that would not be a stretch, but thought I would see what you thought of it.

[Ed Tilley]

I've only just noticed this thread so sorry for the late reply.

I went on a 4 day trip to Bournemouth a few years back. We played Parkstone, Ferndown, Broadstone and Isle of Purbeck.

Isle of Purbeck was a huge disappointment given it's setting, Ferndown was very good if not exciting, and Parkstone was excellent. Broadstone was simply stunning - I had low expectations yet it was one of the best inland courses I've ever played. The sense of space was amazing - you could fit several courses on the land.

I would (and do) recommend it to anyone and it's quite easy to get to from London - no more than 1 1/2 hours from Heathrow.

[Noel Freeman]

Noel,

I was curious about a couple of things that perhaps you can provide some insight that we might all enjoy.

How much of Dunn's layout still exists at Meyrick Park?  I would guess little to none, but was wondering if you found out anything on that.

Also, Parkstone seems to be a unique course in one regard.  Several of the par fives have no bunkers, 3, 11 and 17 to be precise.  How did these holes come across?  Also, I have read that the 9th has some similarities to the Road Hole.  Considering Braid laid out the hole, I could see how that would not be a stretch, but thought I would see what you thought of it.

Not much of Dunn I believe is left at Meyrick Park but that is a ? for Paul Turner, not I

The 9th, 11th and 17th at Parkstone are all tremendous holes.. The 17th is very reminicent to be of #10 at St. Georges Hill in ethos although it is a par 5 with no bunkering. Paul and I both noticed the par 5s without bunkering at Parkstone which was a joy b/c Braid let the wonderful landscape speak for itself without adding the hazards.. None were needed--besides on #17 one has to carry the hill on the right.. See the pic below:



And then the approach shot--no bunkers

[Andrew Mitchell]

How much of Dunn's layout still exists at Meyrick Park?  I would guess little to none, but was wondering if you found out anything on that.

I spent many a happy childhood round at Meyrick Park many years ago during numerous family holidays to Bournemouth. Unfortunately I was ignorant of golf course architecture at that time

[Bob_Huntley]

Noel,

Bournemouth of happy memories, not of golf however, but of a deep emotional experience. Didn't play golf then but there, one cannot have every thing.

Bob

[T_MacWood]

I think it could be argued Broadstone was Tom Dunn's greatest design  (and one of his last)...I get the impression it was the course he was most proud of as well.

These early courses around Bournemouth are proof to those who think Sunningdale and Huntercombe were the first heathland designs that there were courses built upon on the heath prior to 1900.

[Chris_Clouser]

Tom M.

Actually I believe that nearby Meyrick Park was Dunn's greatest work, at least in his mind and in most writings I have seen about Tom Dunn and his work.  He was also the professional there after completing the design so he must have been fairly happy with it.  Hutchinson seemed pleased with it as well, if one were to garner any information about the course from the write-up in British Golf Links.  Considering that most of Dunn's work at both places has been obliterated it is very difficult to guess which was actually his best effort.  

Broadstone, originally known as Dorset, has somewhat of a mysterious past.  In researching it the architectural lines are somewhat blurred.  Depending on where you look it appears that someone named George Dunn was responsible for an eight hole course and then Tom Dunn came in and extended the course to 18 holes.  The club website though suggests that the 18 holes by Dunn were the original course.  Then less than 15 years later Colt was brought in to redesign the course.  These renovations weren't completed until 1922, probably due to the interference of the war.  I have also found some information that suggests that Fowler was hired to complete these changes.  The other thing I found of interest was that the original owner of Broadstone was a Lord Wimbourne, who was also the original land owner for Parkstone.  

The courses near Bournemouth are built upon a totally seperate section of heathland than what most people associate with heathland golf.  They are built on the sandy soils of the Dorset Heaths.  Those found in the London area are built upon the heathland of the Thames Basin.  Also, I would doubt that anyone that is aware of Woking or New Zealand would argue that Sunningdale was the first course built on the heath.

As for Huntercombe, it is not a heathland course.  It is in the Chiltern Hills, which is downsland, and a totally different type of land than heathland.  Though influential in that era of architecture it should not be considered a true heathland course.  

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