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Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Yardage Markers on Sprinklers ?
« Reply #50 on: October 04, 2002, 07:52:22 PM »
::)

Let's see, ... you design in five or six tees for everyone's potential enjoyment of the course, and you're not going to give them any clues on yardages?    Is there then a problem with pictures of the holes on cards too?  Wouldn't want someone actually studying that and wasting time... or seeing the bunker over the hill or that its really 50 yards in front of the green, though it looks adjacent from a distant fairway view?

People cause slow play because of a bunch of reasons, they don't take responsibility to hurry it along, they're enjoying themselves or they just can't play well, or don't know about equitable stroke control or picking up... the medal mentality prevails even for the guy that shots 145.  

Don't blame the messenger or the sprinkler head or the pin sheet.

We have daily pin sheets posted every day.  For those who ride they're on the cart.  For those of us that walk, we grab one or jot the numbers down on the scorecard before playing.  I seem to use the pinsheet numbers 3-4 times a round because I know the pins, and my eyesight is starting to lose acuity, but for one that hasn't played a course, it should help maybe 10+ times a round.  Is that so terrible?

Its worse that folks think they can hit their career shot distance every time.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Yardage Markers on Sprinklers ?
« Reply #51 on: October 04, 2002, 08:56:17 PM »
The scorecard at the Valley Club in Santa Barbara is wonderfully entertaining.  As the members are proud to note, there are no distance markers anywhere on the course.  However, there is a little graphic for each hole on the course neatly printed on the card, along with a legend for what those little icons mean.  One tree looking icon is a "hickory," another an "oak," etc.  Once I was looking for the "hickory" which was supposed to be 175 from the 18th green, and my host says, "Oh, that tree fell down 15 years ago, I guess they ought to reprint the card."

Huck, I think the only thing you and I have ever disagreed about is those abominable Kirby markers.  They lined the 14th fairway with those at my club in Virginia, and I thought they were the ugliest, most unnatural, god awful things I'd ever seen.  I much prefer the inobtrusive marking on a sprinkler head.  The yellow 250, blue 200, white 150, red 100, disk in the center of the fairway is probably the best, you pass one after another as you walk down the fairway and you can count your way to your tee ball.  Nothing worse than watching the carts circle the fairway looking for that missing sprinkler.  Unless it's the GPS.  That's worse!

End of rant.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:10 PM by -1 »

JohnV

Re: Yardage Markers on Sprinklers ?
« Reply #52 on: October 05, 2002, 06:57:07 AM »
Dave Schmidt, I hereby nominate you for the GCA Luddite of the Year award for 2002. ;)

As for the line on the ball, lets assume the USGA prohibited me from drawing the line on the ball.  How long would it be before Titleist printed the line.  And as explained in Decision 20-3/2 that is totally legal to use in lining up the ball.

20-3a/2 Trademark Aimed Along Line of Putt When Ball Replaced
Q. When a player is replacing his ball, is it permissible for him to position the ball so that the trademark is aimed along the line of putt to indicate the line of play?
A. Yes


Besides, if you can't line up "Pro V1 * 392" will a line really help?

As for getting rid of yardage markers and the like, as soon as I have a caddy who can actually tell me the yardage or the correct club at every course I play, I'll go along with you.  In the old days, yardages weren't required because people did have caddies.  Since most caddies I've seen today (with appologies to A_Clay_Man) are young high school kids who really are only bag carriers, we aren't there yet even at the best clubs.

On the south course at Makena in Hawaii they had one of the joke labels on a sprinkler head on a par 5 that said, "Why are you looking here?"  Someone had taken a Sharpie and written, "So I can figure out my layup yardage."  So, I would be in favor of having them out to at least 300 yards.

If you ever play golf with Ron Read of the USGA, he has a routine bet where you add $1 to a the pot every time you look at a yardage marker.  We played Kapalua - Plantation like that and it was pretty interesting trying to guess what to hit there.  Of course, even with good yardages, it is pretty interesting there with all the elevation changes.  For the record, only $1 was added and that was by his partner on the first hole when he forgot.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Lou Duran

Re: Yardage Markers on Sprinklers ?
« Reply #53 on: October 05, 2002, 08:14:12 AM »
If I am repeating myself or others, sorry.  For most of us, including the great Jack Nicklaus, our sight begins to deteriorate in our mid-30s.  By the time we hit 50, many of us can't see our balls landing, much less the location of the flag from 20+ yards further out than our younger friends (40+ yards behind David, in my case).

As one who is lucky enough to play at a few of the better clubs, though often only one time, I wouldn't understand or enjoy an unfamiliar course nearly as much if I had to guess my way around.  Having confidence that a carry is 170 yards and not 195 allows me to hit a shot more affirmatively.  And while Bob Huntley's comment about the average golfer's distance control is true, I suspect that his (the average golfer's) ability to eye-ball distances is commesurate with his ability to execute the shot.  That is, if a hacker has to guess whether he is 170 or 195, the dispersion of his shots would even be greater.

In the absence of a good caddy, accurate yardages puts all those who CHOOSE to avail themselves of this information at a more level competitive position vis-a-vis his more experienced playing partner/opponent.  In other words, it reduces the huge advantage of local knowledge.

It seems to me that golf is a difficult enough game that it should not need a different set of skills, those of a surveyor, if the information is readily available.  If we want the game to be trully hard, lets just play with sticks and stones.

In my opinion, the suggestion that yardage information slows play is just a red herring.  For fun, we should test the theory at an "unofficial" future gca.com outing, though the methodology of the experiment may be rather difficult.  Projected results: no distance information = longer round + higher scores + less enjoyment (unless we're liquored-up).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Yardage Markers on Sprinklers ?
« Reply #54 on: October 05, 2002, 01:08:03 PM »
Dave,
The "Cheater" line is nothing of the sort. There is a rules decision, as pointed out by JohnV, that allows it. How can it be called cheating if following a rule?
Section b of rule 8-2 states that the putting green may not be touched in pointing out a line for putting. It doesn't say the collar cannot be touched, it can. If it didn't say that "No mark shall be placed anywhere to indicate a line for putting" then you could leave a club or bag, etc., off the green but on your line.
Once again, if no mark shall be placed anywhere to indicate a line for putting then alignment lines on putters should also be banned.

If you want a rule to pick on why not the allowance of holding the flagstick up while making a stroke but not being able to place a mark??? Or how about the fact that I would be penalized stroke and distance for a lost ball if you, my opponent, hit my ball by mistake and we don't realize this within the five minute search time???  ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

JohnV

Re: Yardage Markers on Sprinklers ?
« Reply #55 on: October 05, 2002, 01:22:24 PM »
Dave,

Rules are simply lines in the sand that have been decided by the governing bodies.  Why do 3 strike mean you are out?  Because someone decided that is how many you get.  Why can I line up the line on my ball?  Because the R&A and the USGA have decided that I can.  Why can I carry a yardage book, have a caddie tell me the yardage or look at a sprinkler head and pace it off, but I can't use the GPS system in a cart in a tournament?  Because that is how the line has been drawn.  So, while you can argue that you don't agree with the rule and try to get it changed, you can't say someone is cheating when they do it.  I'd be willing to be that Brad Faxon spends a lot more time looking at the putt than he does lining up the line so I don't even think it is any kind of major pace of play issue.

I personally would like to see the rule changed that allowed Rich Beem to brush the line with his hat when his ball was off the green, but not when it was on the green.  I don't call him a cheater because he did it, but I might write a letter to the Rules of Golf Committee stating my case that it gives the player who is one inch off the green a distinct advantage over the player who is on the green.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »