[George Pazin]

But, the larger point is that good golfers don't ever want to give back their good bounces, they only think it would be fair to excise the bad ones.

I have to see if I can squeeze this onto my tagline.

[Lloyd_Cole]

When you're Jack Nicklaus and your flight control is at the highest level, you are likely to be skeptical of design concepts that emphasize bounce.

We all know Jack hit it hard flew it high and landed it soft. That doesn't equate, to me, with having flight control of the highest level. Was Jack's trajectory control on par with Tiger's or Trevino's or Hogan's. I don't know, but it isn't something he's famous for, like they are. I'd be interested if anyone here can comment.

[Phil Benedict]

When you're Jack Nicklaus and your flight control is at the highest level, you are likely to be skeptical of design concepts that emphasize bounce.

We all know Jack hit it hard flew it high and landed it soft. That doesn't equate, to me, with having flight control of the highest level. Was Jack's trajectory control on par with Tiger's or Trevino's or Hogan's. I don't know, but it isn't something he's famous for, like they are. I'd be interested if anyone here can comment.

Jack was pretty good at getting the ball to land where he wanted it to, don't you think?  And because of his high trajectory, his ball didn't roll very far.  It's fair to say he invented the modern aerial game that is so often scorned here.

[Adam Clayman]

Yup, Jack's an enigma, wrapped in a riddle, surrounded by a screwy conundrum.

[Tom_Doak]

Phil:

If you are the best who ever lived at landing the ball softly where you want to, then you have the advantage over everyone else, whether the course is fair or unfair.  

It seems to me that you are defending the position that the best player in golf should always be rewarded for a good shot ... so as long as he drives it well he never has to hit a great shot, and never has to face a situation beyond his abilities, which most golfers face on an everyday basis.  That may have been more defensible in the days when it was damned hard to drive the ball consistently well, but it's not anymore.  The only way to get a great player to go for a great shot now, is to make him settle for par (or maybe bogey) if he doesn't try it.

[Phil Benedict]

Tom,

Let's go back to the original premise of this thread.  As I understand the situation, there wasn't a good ground option to get the ball on that green and the aerial option was problematical because the green was so firm and lacked depth.  So the only hope for the greatest player in the world was to hit the flag from 220 yards!  That's screwy.  Maybe playing for the front bunker was an option, but aiming for a hazard when the green is easily within reach strikes me as bizarre.  To me Jack's point is that despite his skill, he had no real option but was baled out by dumb luck.

No I don't think a player is entitled to a good result from every good shot; indeed, I loved the Open Championship at Royal St. Georges which had enough bad bounces for an entire season - Ben Curtis won for Lord's sakes!  But I don't think every Open should be like that, and I can understand why a world class player might not have enjoyed it.

I also think we can be a little condescending when discussing great players and architecture.  Jack Nicklaus played a different game than you and me, and maybe he's earned the right to have a different perspective.

Plus I need to up my post count so that I can be a Full Member again!

[Dan Kelly]

Let's go back to the original premise of this thread.  As I understand the situation, there wasn't a good ground option to get the ball on that green and the aerial option was problematical because the green was so firm and lacked depth.  So the only hope for the greatest player in the world was to hit the flag from 220 yards!  That's screwy.  Maybe playing for the front bunker was an option, but aiming for a hazard when the green is easily within reach strikes me as bizarre.  To me Jack's point is that despite his skill, he had no real option but was baled out by dumb luck.

Didn't he have the option to play to the right half of the green?

Is that screwy?

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