[Mark_Rowlinson]

Is Pennard Braid's finest work?  As the course is SO beloved of GCAers, does that make Braid a great architect?

[Chris_Clouser]

Braid is a great architect whether Pennard is his best or not.  

How's that for an answer Mark.

It would be hard to top some of his other efforts like Hankley Common, Gleneagles and some others.  But I'm speaking clearly from the perspective of someone that has not seen any of them yet.

[Noel Freeman]

Mark-

As a merging of art, terrain and great design, I humbly submit that St. Enodoc is Braid's best. I realize 11-15 is not the greatest stretch of golfing ground but 1-10 and 16-18 is as inspired as links golf can be....

[Mark Chaplin]

Pennard is a superb piece of work on some great land.

One of my Braid favourites is the very under rated Thorpeness in Suffolk, after a weak opening it gets better and better. It's such a shame the course isn't kept in better condition.

I just need to play Brora to confirm Pennard is Braid's best.

He was a great architect.

[Bill_McBride]

Sean, thinking back on Pennard, one thing that strikes me now is the wonderful routing over that steep and broken land.  Somehow Braid managed to create a course that isn't an overwhelmingly tough hike even though the overall elevation changes are severe.  The hikes up #1, #6, #10 to the green, #11, and #17 are the only really hearty climbs, and they aren't bad at all.   Someone with less skill at routing could have created a heart-stopping experience!

It actually reminds me a bit of Capilano, where Stanley Thompson takes you downhill toward the harbor in breathtaking fashion over the first six holes, and then you make your way back up to the clubhouse the next four holes with only two fairly strenuous climbs.  It's all in the routing by the geniuses!  

[Tommy Williamsen]

I too love Pennard.  It is miracle of imagination.  I would agree with others that St. Enodoc is even better.  With the exceptio of a couple of holes, it may be one of my favorite courses anywhere.

[Tom_Doak]

Mark:  When forced to choose between them for the front of The Confidential Guide (where each architect got only one course), I chose St. Enodoc, but it could have gone either way.

I think Gleneagles is underrated, also.  A lot of people dismiss it because it's inland and because the Scots think they cater too much to American tastes, but I did not feel that way about the golf course at all, and I cannot imagine that James Braid did.

[Phil McDade]

...and I'll add Boat of Garten. Not viewed in the same league as an inland course as Glenagles, but it's a course with a great variety of holes, a wonderful set of par 4s on the back nine, and challenging because of the relatively narrow playing corridors. It's short, yes, around 6,000 yards, but it's a real gem of a course.

[Phil McDade]

"...does that make Braid a great architect?"

I've always thought Braid is viewed (unfairly, in my view) as a somewhat lesser golf course architect among some of the Golden Age set because he 1) didn't like to travel, and never built a course over here in the US (unlike, e.g., Colt or Park); and 2) he'd build anywhere, and therefore worked on a bunch of unconventional sites and therefore helped design some pretty unconvential courses. I mean, Stonehaven, Glencruitten, and Rothesay aren't exactly courses talked about in discussions about great architecture. But Braid had a hand in all of them, on sites only moderately conducive to good course design, and made courses of interest and merit on them. That seems to take as much, if not more, skill as a course architect compared to routing on a great piece of land.

[Larry_Keltto]

Has anyone played Stranraer? I believe it was Braid's last course.

I nearly played it 2003 but was forced to change plans. I believe Alan Ferguson is a fan of Stranraer.

[Ed Tilley]

Mark-

As a merging of art, terrain and great design, I humbly submit that St. Enodoc is Braid's best. I realize 11-15 is not the greatest stretch of golfing ground but 1-10 and 16-18 is as inspired as links golf can be....

Noel,

I respectfully disagree on two grounds.

1. I think 11, 14, and 15 are excellent holes. 12 is a good hole and 13 is OK.

2. 10 is an absolutely stupid hole and by some distance the worst on the course.

Absolutely magnificent course though. Anyone who designed St. Enodoc, Pennard and Perranporth is alright by me.

Ed

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Yes, I have played Stranraer - in 1969!  I don't remember its architecture in detail, but it is a lovely spot, on an elevated site overlooking Loch Ryan with a memorable hole plunging from the high ground to a fairway alongside the beach.

The other day I was looking up some facts in the R&A Golfer's Handbook and I could not but help notice what a huge number of courses Braid designed in Scotland, especially around Glasgow.

For those of you with access to Google Earth, Pennard's bearings are
 51°34'22.42"N   4° 5'43.01"W

Or the postcode SA3 2BT gets you close enough.

It makes interesting viewing - how much of the site is not used, how few bunkers there are, and how brown the fairways are.

[Ed Tilley]

Sean,

If you pushed the tee back (not sure if this is possible) it would probably be a better hole. I'm not sure where the lay up is though. If you could somehow create a widish layup area 50 to 100 yards short of the green it could be a good risk reward par 5.

I don't think they'll do anything to it as I believe they consider it their 'signature hole' - it says this on their website.

Ed

[Marty Bonnar]

Has anyone played Stranraer? I believe it was Braid's last course.

I nearly played it 2003 but was forced to change plans. I believe Alan Ferguson is a fan of Stranraer.

I last played Stranraer 7 or 8 years ago. It's a ridiculously difficult spot to get to, but I have rellies in the area and was there on business too. As Mark says the drop shot to the lochside 5th fairway is as cool as it can be, but the rest of the course is only so-so. The old fellow must not have been travelling at all by then!

http://www.stranraergolfclub.net/

On the other hand, I must again recommend Alyth to this happy band. It's seriously groovy. Situated on one of those post-glacial gravel fans at the junction of the Highlands and the Lowlands, it drains just about as well as a Links. Mega-quirky and quite beautiful, it reminds me a lot of the Surrey Heathland Courses.

http://www.alythgolfclub.co.uk/

Great website too. DO read the Club History.

FBD.

[Brian_Ewen]

Martin
I asked this last week with no answer , have you played Forfar ? .

After this season I would pick Forfar over Alyth . I think its a very underrated Braid .

Kirriemuir is the only Braid I have been disappointed with , even though the last two holes almost saves it .

It wont be long before I can add Edzell's name also , as each winter they seem to destroy more of Braids work . in favour of a US parkland style . Shame !

Brian

[Noel Freeman]

Mark-

As a merging of art, terrain and great design, I humbly submit that St. Enodoc is Braid's best. I realize 11-15 is not the greatest stretch of golfing ground but 1-10 and 16-18 is as inspired as links golf can be....

Noel,

I respectfully disagree on two grounds.

1. I think 11, 14, and 15 are excellent holes. 12 is a good hole and 13 is OK.

2. 10 is an absolutely stupid hole and by some distance the worst on the course.

Absolutely magnificent course though. Anyone who designed St. Enodoc, Pennard and Perranporth is alright by me.

Ed

Ed

I think #s 10, 12, 14 & 15 are the pick of these holes round the church.  #11 is clever because of its use of the hedge offering the illusion of a dogleg on a par 3! #13 is the only hole in this area that I don't care for and it is for me the worst on the course.  

Would your opinion of #10 change if it were a par 5?

Ciao

Ed-Sean,

To be honest the only hole I don't relish playing at St. Enodoc is the drop shot 15th.  The redone bunkering I last saw two years ago was not very good to my eye but perhaps it has matured.  Russell Talley and I also did a review of St. Enodoc for Neil Crafter's Golf Architecture #7 (I think).. One must not forget that Tom Simpson is responsible for the terrific 5th hole.

The 10th



I find no fault in the 10th, only because I do not find it an abortion but a really odd duck of a hole (and I mean that metaphorically).. The protuberance that cuts the fairway off means the 2nd shot is going to be one challenging draw (if you are a righty).  With the church directly in your sights and acting as a visual aid to hit a push or straighter shot than you need to, I find the play fun.  With the creek/stream that runs at the base of Bray Hill left, there is a lot to worry about.

As per 11-14, let me say this-- I enjoy them all as well.  From the tips 11 is a stout hole with the OB left.  #12 is one of my favorite drives in Golf (as it was for the poet Sir John Betjeman) with the breakers of Trebetherick Bay behind you.  A slight draw here really opens up the hole to a dual falloff green (you have to hit the middle of it).  13 has OB left (rock wall) which makes it testing, Betjeman birdied it once and had high praise in his Seaside Golf poem for achieving that.

I love the drop off on the 14th green on the right which Russell Talley thought was created for fill for the green.

I'm not sure if the 16th hole has had its green moved.. I know it was being discussed and Peter McEvoy the consulting architect had a plan to make the hole longer--going from 495 to something like 540. I hope they didnt do that b/c the green is tucked perfectly off a left side dune.. It was a magical hole for me when I played with Paul Turner there a few years back.  I was playing heinous golf and we came to 16.  I hit a drive that landed right at the fairway aiming stick just before the land twists like an intestine down and to the right.  I then struck a hooking long iron that in ethos was similar to the goal of Diego Maradona (the hand of god in the 1986 World Cup)which hit the left side dune by the green and re-orientated the orb at an very odd angle right-- to a snug 5 feet which I sunk for eagle. Paul's mouth was agape!  A priceless moment.

By the way, here is a pic of Sir John Betjeman I believe taken at St. Enodoc.. It is a great picture.

[Marty Bonnar]

Brian,
apologies for forgetting your question. Sometimes the GCA information overload is just too much for my miniscule memory.

I haven't played Forfar - 5  East Fife - 4. Checked the website tho' and at 28quid this has to be top of the agenda for next season. Maybe we can tempt the GolfWeek Masterraters out of St Andrews in April and introduce them to the joys of the 2nd(3rd?) tier?

cheers,
FBD.

[Ed Tilley]

Noel,

I too hope they leave 16 well alone. 16-18 is as good a finish as I know to a golf course. I can only assume that they are trying to toughen it up with a view to getting more championships. I think that would be a great shame as the course is fantastic as it is - certainly my favourite course.

Ed

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