[Tommy Williamsen]

I’m not certain how widespread the interest is but after reading the book The Centurions of Golf, I noted that of the first 100 golf courses founded in England, 25 had roots in the clergy.  Some courses were instigated by clergy, Some clergy were co-founders, and some served as the first captain.
Those clubs include such stalwarts as Royal North Devon, Royal Mid-Surrey, Wallasey, Rye, Royal Ashdown Forest, Ganton, and Notts.

I suspect there may be a number of reasons for this.  Some were bored with their congregations and needed some devilish work.   Some clubs may have wanted the support of the clergy to sell the idea to the area.  Or maybe they pastors wanted certain  parishioners on the golf course rather than making trouble in church.  I suspect, however, that the real reason is that the clergy knew golf was the way par-excellence to spiritual maturity.  Anyway as a Lutheran clergyman, I find it interesting.  

[Mike_Cirba]

Tommy,

Don't you know that the Lord sent Father Carr down to work with George Crump and give him the inspiration to develop Pine Valley?

Similarly, I've heard tell in readings from Sir Guy Campbell, if memory serves, that each of the first seven days God spent were simply the superfluous details involved in getting The Old Course right.  

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Tommy,

An Episcopal bishop was co-designer of the 9-hole Sewanee Golf Course in Tennessee and played there daily.

Anthony

[Tommy Williamsen]

Mike, it is too bad that God didn't decide to do more courses.

[Tom Jefferson]

Tommy;

God did "do more courses"............everywhere there is a course there is the hand of God!  

This otherworldly game and it's links are chock full of devine inspiration....IMH (yet spirited) opinion.

Tom

[Alfie]

Tommy,

Your observations are spot re - the clergy in early golf - and even more so in Scotland's progression from a minority sport to a significant social pastime from the 1880's and on. The ministers of Scotland's Presbyterian church played a massive part in the so called "boom" in golf's popularity by involving themselves as you initially noted. They also promoted the sport from the pulpit by encouraging people to take up golf in the interests of their health ! (smog ridden city life from the industrial revolution)
I wrote the piece below a few years back and it remains unfinished, but you might find it interesting ? The refs to Sunday Golf are another story - which saw the pendulum swing the other way in regard to the church's support of golf !
Tony Muldoon tipped me off about your thread and I'll try to follow it up if there's any God fearing golfers respondants   Personally, I think I'm an agnostic going on aethiest....far too many missed putts to believe in heavenly bodies  

Alfie.

THE ECCLESIASTICAL INFLUENCE.

The advancement of golf through the ages had - in no small measure -  witnessed a strong influence from those "men of the cloth". The clergy of yesteryear had undoubtedly linked themselves with some irresistible bond to the game and it's progression.

The ministers within the Clydesdale parishes during the 1890's, certainly inherited their predecessors passion for golf, and continued a long line of enthusiasm by providing the inspiration required in getting golf instituted to their respective communities.

At Crawford in 1888, the Rev Christopher McKune laid out a small course of six holes on his kirk glebe prior to the formation of Crawford golf club in 1890. We know, from the Lanark minutes, that McKune was a member at Lanark in 1887, but fails to reappear on the members list in subsequent years. Perhaps this was a case of golf espionage, whereby some inside information and experience was necessary before embarking on his own enterprise of "golf in Crawford" ? One thing is for sure  - he wasted very little time in establishing one of the finest (eighteen hole) inland golf courses in Scotland, for it's time. In doing so, he also succeded in surpassing the Lanark clubs pioneering efforts by creating the districts first eighteen hole course and an impressive first year membership of two hundred to support the new venture.

During the same period, the Rev H.L.Dick of Wiston, became the first winner of Crawford's "Colebrooke Cup" and was rapidly becoming a force to be reckoned with, in competitive golf. It can be assumed that Rev Dick was instrumental at the formation of the Roberton club in 1892, and possibly at Abington the same year. He was bestowed the honour of being Roberton’s first club Captain and promptly secured the record for the green. He replicated the same achievement at Crawford, Abington and Biggar, which more than justified his "plus" handicap.  

Ministers in general had a great influence on the game, but, were made the butt of many a tale, especially when it concerned their language on the course. The following extract is from Vol.VIII of “Golf” 1894.

I heard the other day of a Scotsman, a retired minister of the Kirk, who was deploring the tendency of the game to become a ruling passion and also to induce bad language. `In fact’, he said, ` I had to give it up for that reason.’
`Give up golf ?’ exclaimed his friend.
`No,’ said his reverence, `the meenistry.’

To continue this trend briefly we have another two, this time from the excellent St Andrews, Home of Golf,(Caddies Cantrips.)
A young minister was learning to play golf, but making a very poor attempt of it. He was seen grinding his teeth and looking as though he would like to say something.
"Oot wi' it, maister." said the caddie. "Oot wi' it, for ye'll never learn if ye dinnae."

A minister was golfing with a friend when the latter made a complete duff of his drive, and, disgusted, turned to the minister and said -
"Let's say't, just let's say't, an I'll be relieved."
The minister thought for a moment, and then replied -
"Tuts ! man : that shot's no' worth a curse !"



Every club in Clydesdale was honoured by the presence of the local minister at each clubs formation and in the instance of Biggar - they had no less than eight local parish ministers amongst the founder membership.
The most detrimental influence that they forced upon their respective clubs was their general reluctance, or defiance, to give their blessing to Sunday Golf ! This highly contentious issue would provoke many ecclesiastical resignations from golf club’s all over Scotland from the turn of the century up to the 1940’s -when and where the plebicite votes were swinging dramatically in favour of Sunday golf !

[Tommy Williamsen]

Alfie, I learned a long time ago that God does not putt.  I recall reading that in many place in england, Sunday golf was blessed as long as golfers didn't employ caddies.  
Glad to hear that Presbyterians enjoy the game so much.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Tommy,

Royal Ashdown Forest was designed by Archdeacon Scott, and West Cornwall by Reverend FF Tyack.

We are constantly reminded of the Company of Heaven with golf courses such as St Andrews, St Enodoc, Royal St George’s, San Lorenzo, St Cloud etc, in fact a whole hagiology, but religions and sects of all kinds can be found throughout the world of golf:

Temple, Quaker Ridge, Inn of the Mountain Gods, San Francisco GC, Los Angeles CC, Vicar’s Cross, Dean Wood, Bishop Auckland, Christchurch, Druid’s Glen, Stonehenge, Ramsey (former Archbishop of Canterbury), Stoneham (The company shall stone ‘em – Ezek 23/47), Pryors Hayes, Glen Abbey, Barrow (pre-Christian burial), Furnace Creek (modern equivalent), Eden Course, Chapel-en-le-Frith, Canons Court, Forest of Dean, Cross Creek, Four Marks, Kington, Ryde (as in ‘…. on in majesty’), Castelgandolfo, Stand (‘…up, stand up for Jesus’), Magdalene Fields, Diss, Olympia Fields, Vail, Gracehill, Holywell, Coldwinters (night), Tuam (Domum tuam Domine), Hermitage, Kilcock (circumcision), Mount Temple (trust the Irish to get the word order wrong), Wick (how else do you get a candle to stay alight?), Easter Moffat, Marienfeld, Gay Hill (couldn’t omit that one!), Anthem CC, Mission Inn, Mission Hills, Troy, Burning Tree (close to Burning Bush), Ramshorn (same story), Hope Island, Paradise Valley, Palm Valley, Sharon Heights, Sanctuary Cove, Hassocks, Clones (ethically challenging to the clergy), Vineyards, Chapel Hills, Retreat at Sea Island, Miracle Hills, Bethesda CC, Salem, Vesper CC, Egypt Valley, Olive Branch CC, Pass Christian Isles, Shaker Heights, Fox Chapel, Lords Valley, Dominion Club, Bethel Island, Bishop CC, Diablo Hills, Snowmass (mid-winter Eucharist), St Johns (pity it’s not in Gospel Oak), Locust Hills (Il), Locust Hill (NY) (in fact a plague of locusts), Santa Maria GC, Valhalla, Whitefish (and loaves?), Angel Park, Angel Fire, Bethlehem CC, Green Hills (‘far away, without a city wall’), Moab GC, and a personal favourite, Came Down (‘He …. …. to earth from Heaven’).

I failed adequately to represent Islam.  I wonder if the Alcaidesa Links near Gibraltar are sufficiently fundamental?

[Tommy Williamsen]

Mark, great stuff.  I need to remind my congregation what a holy avocation my golf is.  They shold be duly (un)impressed.  But it is worth a shot.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Tommy,

Here's your text for next Sunday's sermon:

Isiah XV v6:

For the hay is withered away, the grass faileth, there is no green [thing].

It slighly reminds me of Woodmore when we visited....

Mark.

[Matthew Hunt]

Have you ever read the book:

"Play It as It lies"

It is a great book linking golf to the spirtual life written by a Fred Couples mad Priest

It is one of the funniest and best books I have read.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Mark, fortunately the withered grass at Woodmore grew in very well.  I am preaching from Isaiah this Sunday but the text is from chapter 40 "make the rough places level"

Matthew, I don't know that book.  But I will soon.  thanks.

[Tony_Muldoon]

From "the Centurions of golf" by Mike Price


"Most of the earliest English clubs were founded by Scots, but it is intriguing to note the part played by the expansion of the railways and, perhaps less well-known, by the church.  IN the late 19th C, the Bishop of London was known to be a great advocate of this new and healthy outdoor Activity. Many clubs found that the involvement of the local clergyman encouraged the ‘great and the good’ to join as well. Stories of Sabbath-breaking abound although Tom Williamson, the long-serving Methodist Professional at Notts Golf Club, stuck to the promise given to his mother on her death bed never to play golf on a Sunday.”

What’s a vowel between friends?

[mike_beene]

Thus,the Sunday bag since the caddies were theoretically in church.Also,remember "A River Runs Through It" and the statement that equated religion and fly fishing.I feel the same about golf.To me,there is no better Sunday than a good worship service followed by our regular 1:30ish 18 hole walk.

[JNC Lyon]

Wasn't LuLu Golf Club in Philly originally LuLu Temple Golf Club, founded by some messianic order?? Others would know the details better than I.

[RJ_Daley]

Here is something I found:

Among the earliest records of golf in Perth are cases of breach of Sabbath before the Kirk Session. On 19 November 1599 John Gardiner, James Bowman, Laurence Chalmers and Laurence Cuthbert confessed 'to playing at the golf on the North Inch in the time of preaching afternoon on the Sabbath'. On 2 January 1604 six young boys were punished for 'playing at the golf on the North Inch at the time of preaching afternoon' on the previous Sunday. Robert Robertson, the ringleader, was fined one merk (œ0.66), and he and the rest were ordered to appear the following Sunday in 'the place of public repentance in presence of the whole congregation'. Golf was sufficiently well established that on 21 October 1633 the Town Council reserved the Inches for archery, golf and other pastimes according to use and wont.

And of course we shouldn't forget the devout nature of both Old Tom MOrris, who finally gave in later in life but believed in, "nae Sunday gowf" and Thomas Bendelow, the Johnny Appleseed of GCA in America.

The subject is fascinating to me.  Perhaps golf is the closest connection most modern people come to being out in a pleasant outdoor environment, where there is a genteel pursuit of a sociable game to reign in more fierce warlike competitions.  Thus, the more brotherly love feelings evoke a sense of being nearer godliness.

For my own part, I have long left the organized church, or desire to follow any religion, and have my doubts about an all knowing or all seeing God of oversight upon us minute creatures in this vast universe.  Yet, I can't deny a certain spiritual feeling that "sometimes" enters my conciousness when playing golf, particularly with cherished friends on a great near natural setting golf course like Bally or SH.  

Although, like the "River Runs Through It" I personally get even more moved on a great and isolated stretch of trout stream or in solitude while hiking on a high trail in a place like above Taggart and Bradley lakes in the Tetons...

So, it really must be the association with outdoors and nature that we suspect is ruled by a higher power.  Although golf courses are not really very natural, we fool ourselves into thinking so and associate the needs for spiritual dimension in our lives to the game and its settings.

Perhaps we should build 100 new courses in Iraq and supply all the balls and equipment for free.  Give them the equipment and green fees free in exchange for one RPG or AK.  Let them play for free if they will play in a mixed group of Sunni and Shiite.  at 8Million a course and 2 more for upkeep of each, it would cost less than 3 days of military involvement.  

[Alfie]

Richard,
"Yet, I can't deny a certain spiritual feeling that "sometimes" enters my conciousness when playing golf, ......"

I assume by that, you mean when the alcohol passes the gullet, Richard ?

Alfie.

[Alfie]

Since Sunday Golf is being discussed - here's a post by Martin Bonnar from...God knows when  

   Thou shalt no' Gowf!« on: Yesterday at 08:57:00am »    
 It would appear that in the heady days of rampant Presbyterianism in Scotland, Sunday Golf was a real Hot Chestnut of a topic. Pitreavie was evidently not immune from the debate…This from an article by ‘Onlooker’ in the Dunfermline Journal of 10th Feb, 1923The Sabbatarian…“Pitreavie’s hills, Pitreavie’s dales,To me seem dear on Monday,On Tuesday, Wednesday and the rest,But I’ll hae nae gowf on Sunday!”My clubs and balls and a’ my gear,I’ll maybe leave for one day,But no’ for twae and no’ for three,If you play gowf on Sunday.”The Modern Sportsman…“I’m in the office a’ the week;I canna play on Monday,On Tuesday, Wednesday and the rest,And I’m gaun tae play on Sunday!”“They dae in the north and south,Frae Cromarty tae Lundy,I’ll have to leave Pitreavie club,If you’ll no’ play gowf on Sunday.”The Greenkeeper…“You hack my course up a’ the week,On Tuesday, Wednesday, Monday,If you don’t need to rest at a’,Well – the greens need rest on Sunday.”

It would be two more years before Sunday Golf was actually approved by the Committee, and this only after a written protest from four of the local ‘Meenisters’! Luckily, there appears to have been plenty of ‘Heathens’ in the Club as the decision was eventually approved 50-18. Hurrah for Sunday Golf! What a fine legacy for the rest of us!

FBD.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Hmmm I was going to mention it was the Railroad and not the church who drove much of the early Canadian Golf developement. lol

[RJ_Daley]

It is interesting to speculate how golf would perhaps never have gained any traction and would hardly have grown, had the fundamentalist "nae gowf on the Sabbath" remained the prevalent attitude.  With a 5 or 6 day work week, and nae gowf on Sunday, I doubt the sport would have stood a chance to reach the export to the U.S. and world growth that it had.  Only the idle wealthy might have had time to play regularly.  

[RJ_Daley]

Alfie, spirits have in deed passed my gullet - even on a golf course, but visions of angels have equally danced in my mind.  Ironically, the visions of angels happened to me last year at Angels Crossing.  

[Alfie]

Tiger,
The railroads DID play a major part in golf's evolution, but there were other factors too, including the role of Church ministers "driving" their flocks towards the railway station in order to find a golf course which was nearly always conveniently placed within walking distance to the station.

Richard,
Totally agree with your speculation in regard to Sunday or "Nae Sunday golf". In this respect, golf HAD to move on IMO.

You're very lucky to have visions of angels. I tend to see demons and wee horrible monsters on every putting green I visit  

Alfie.

[Joe Hancock]

Alfie, spirits have in deed passed my gullet - even on a golf course, but visions of angels have equally danced in my mind.  Ironically, the visions of angels happened to me last year at Angels Crossing.  

That...sniff, sniff....is maybe...sniff....the sweetest thing anyone has ever said about me...sniff.....

 

Joe

[RJ_Daley]

Joe, don't flatter yourself!    The angels vision thing happened the first round I played at late afternoon, almost having the place to myself, while I was ALONE out there playing and exploring the GC.  You were more the part of the spirits passing the gullet part of the experience that occured at the supers toon-a-mint!  

[Joe Hancock]

Joe, don't flatter yourself!    The angels vision thing happened the first round I played at late afternoon, almost having the place to myself, while I was ALONE out there playing and exploring the GC.  You were more the part of the spirits passing the gullet part of the experience that occured at the supers toon-a-mint!  

OOOHHH, I see......I didn't mean to expose your soft side, RJ. I won't say another word....man.  

Thanks again, RJ...tough guy....dude.....Sean Connery look-alike.......

Joe

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