The British Open in Ireland

[Brad Tufts]

Mitch Cumstein,

I admit my experiences in Ireland so far have been of a more quirky nature....my thought process based on where I've played...

Ballybunion....an Irish Open host, but still only 6700 yards.

Carne...would love to see it, but too short and too remote.

Co. Sligo...fun but too short for the bombers.

Connemara....see Carne...and the front nine is a bit low on the excitement meter...even though when I was there it was made fun by thick fog...

Enniscrone....see Carne and Co. Sligo.

Tralee...fun, but too many Americanized elements, and the dune holes border on the wacky...

Waterville....the pros go there already to practice, its long, hard, windy, and fair.

But, from June 27th-July 5th 2007, I will be seeing The Island, Portmarnock Links and Old, The European Club, Baltray, Ballyliffin Glashedy and Old, Rosapenna Old Tom and Sandy Hills, Royal Portrush Dunluce and Valley, Royal Co. Down, and Ardglass  

We missed Lahinch in '03, will have to hit that one next time....

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I think Portrush or RCD. They need to have a fair number of hotel rooms nearby. Portmarnoch near Dublin would be a great choice as well. I think it is highly unlikely though, but will defer to rihc, Mark, Sean et al on this.

[Brian Phillips]

Any venue has to do with length but most of all it is the logisitics of getting there and nearly all the great venues in Ireland are a bitch to get to.

Rcih and Huckster,

Typical Septics that have no respect for someone else's tournament...but it is okay to call your softball tournament The World Series...now that's a joke..

Have respect for the the oldest pro tournament on these isles..and maybe the world.

[Chris Kane]

I agree with Brian.  I think its also time that people started to show some respect by referring to the tennis tournament played at Wimbledon each year by its correct name: "The Championships"!!!

[Chris Perry]

I've only seen one person mention Ballybunion, but what about "newer" courses that we as golf fans might want to see on TV in all their glory?

Old Head (a nightmare for travel and spectator space of course)
Doonbeg

Etc.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Jason It is hard to argue with you on that significant detail.

[Paul_Turner]

I've changed my mind with all the British Open vs Open Championship malarkey.

It's just a form of Scottish/English snobbery that's only come about in the last decade or two... to stick to the Yanks.  Probably because of the Ryder Cup!

Just about nobody gave a hoot when Nicklaus, Watson etc were winning and calling it the "British Open".  I remember official merchandise with "British" on it.

[Jack_Marr]

Spectators would die if they had it at Old Head.

I'd say Lahinch. It's not far from an airport etc. I don't know where everyone would park, though.

And isn't the World Series called after a newspaper, rather than a reference to a battle between all the baseball teams of the world?

I think Peter Allis said the British Open would be played in Rosses Point if it were in the U.K. He mentioned it after playing the course, so he was really saying that it was British Open standard, rather than it being the only course in Ireland suitable.

[Ed Tilley]

I agree with Brian.  I think its also time that people started to show some respect by referring to the tennis tournament played at Wimbledon each year by its correct name: "The Championships"!!!

Chris - that's not quite accurate. I have a Wimbledon towel! It says, as does all official merchandise 'The Championships Wimbledon'. I challenge you to find one piece of official merchandise that says 'The British Open'.

Much as people don't want to hear this, you can't hold an Open at Waterville, Ballybunion or Lahinch. Leaving aside their suitability, and I'm really not that big a fan of Waterville - I think there's something not quite right about the place, they are in the middle of nowhere. How many people are within a couple of hours drive? Compare that to the current courses on the Open rota.

You could hold an Open at probably Portmarnock and RCD. Given the history of the 'troubles', I think you would have to hold it at Portmarnock before you hold it at RCD. Show that it genuinely is The Open, and not The British Open before holding it in N. Ireland (which incidentally is not part of Great Britain, but is part of the UK).

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Why take it to Ireland and play on some silly old links course when there are some perfectly adequate venues in England such as The Belfry, The Oxfordshire, East Sussex National, Carden Park, Hanbury Manor, Moor Allerton... You can't stop quality rising to the top of the pile.  

And why not Wales?  Ireland has had it once, Wales never.  In fact you could hold the men's and women's Opens together at the same time at Celtic Manor, then Michelle Wie could play in whichever tournament she wished, and maybe a few wimps from the men's tour could show their true colours on the ladies' course.  

What potential!

[Ian Dalzell]

Gentlemen,
Many of you are losing sight of the fact that it is called "The Open Championship" and it is a british event run by the R&A.  British is not English, do not get the two confused.

Great Britain is made up of Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland.  That would make all courses in the south, including those listed (Rosses Point, K club, Old Head, Lahinch, Ballybunion etc) ineligible to host such an event.

As someone rightly posted, the only time the event has ever been played outside of Scotland and England is when they travelled to my home course at Royal Portrush in 1951, a tournament won by Max Faulkener.  Fred Daly, who was a member at Portrush, won the 1947 Open Championship at Hoylake.

I have heard much whispering about bringing the Open Championship back to Northern Ireland, but quite honestly the infrastructure is just not sufficient for todays crowds.  They have built more hotels in and around Portrush, the course has implemented some new tees and has the ability to go back further on a few more holes, but I'm not sure it will ever return to Irish shores in my lifetime.
As for RCD, again, I think the accommodations aren't there for the crowds.  Both courses are worthy of an Open Championship, but I can't see it happening.  There are no other courses, in my opinion anyway, that are suitable and formidable enough to test the best in the world in Northern Ireland.  Wales is weak too, so what do you have left - Scotland and England, with most happening in Scotland.

My .02

[Mark Chaplin]

The event started in 1860 so we have to agree it has some pedigree, you will find no one at the R&A talking about the "British" Open, this is a name devised by the press and overseas friends to differentiate from their own Opens.

As I've mentioned before I would like the R&A to take the event to a smaller venue every 15 years. There are several potential venues with the course but not the infrastructure to host 40 000 a day but maybe 15 000. That could assist RCD, RD, Royals Porthcawl and Portrush or Saunton.

As far as the great links in Ireland are concerned what about the Irish Open? Interestingly the Irish Open was held 3 times each at RCD and RP but that's another story.

[Paul_Turner]

Gentlemen,
Many of you are losing sight of the fact that it is called "The Open Championship" and it is a british event run by the R&A.  British is not English, do not get the two confused.

Great Britain is made up of Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland.  That would make all courses in the south, including those listed (Rosses Point, K club, Old Head, Lahinch, Ballybunion etc) ineligible to host such an event.

As someone rightly posted, the only time the event has ever been played outside of Scotland and England is when they travelled to my home course at Royal Portrush in 1951, a tournament won by Max Faulkener.  Fred Daly, who was a member at Portrush, won the 1947 Open Championship at Hoylake.

I have heard much whispering about bringing the Open Championship back to Northern Ireland, but quite honestly the infrastructure is just not sufficient for todays crowds.  They have built more hotels in and around Portrush, the course has implemented some new tees and has the ability to go back further on a few more holes, but I'm not sure it will ever return to Irish shores in my lifetime.
As for RCD, again, I think the accommodations aren't there for the crowds.  Both courses are worthy of an Open Championship, but I can't see it happening.  There are no other courses, in my opinion anyway, that are suitable and formidable enough to test the best in the world in Northern Ireland.  Wales is weak too, so what do you have left - Scotland and England, with most happening in Scotland.

My .02

Northern Ireland isn't part of Great Britain;  it's part of the UK.

[Jack_Marr]

I think Peter Allis said the British Open would be played in Rosses Point if it were in the U.K. He mentioned it after playing the course, so he was really saying that it was British Open standard, rather than it being the only course in Ireland suitable.

Jack

Doesn't old Peter talk a load of rubbish?  That guy is forever spewing forth nonsense.  Rosses Point Open quality?  Not on yer life.  It is easily the runt of the big name Irish litter.

Ciao

Hi Sean

He was quite possibly talking to a member and wanted to be nice. I don't know really. That said, I do think it's an excellent course. I've been on it once. though.

The European Club is another possibility. It has good access wiht roads etc. Baltray is another.

[Sean_A]

I think Peter Allis said the British Open would be played in Rosses Point if it were in the U.K. He mentioned it after playing the course, so he was really saying that it was British Open standard, rather than it being the only course in Ireland suitable.

Jack

Doesn't old Peter talk a load of rubbish?  That guy is forever spewing forth nonsense.  Rosses Point Open quality?  Not on yer life.  It is easily the runt of the big name Irish litter.

Ciao

Hi Sean

He was quite possibly talking to a member and wanted to be nice. I don't know really. That said, I do think it's an excellent course. I've been on it once. though.

The European Club is another possibility. It has good access wiht roads etc. Baltray is another.

Jack

There is no doubt Rosses Point is a good course, possibly very good.  However, it stands in the very dark shadow of both Carne and Enniscrone -  hands down no questions asked.  These are just a few nearby courses which are superior and I would take Donegal without any hesitation as well, though I could understand dissenters to my point of view.  I know Ireland is a small island, but it packs a big punch.  In the big scheme of things Rosses Point isn't a consideration.  

The only course in the South that could host the Open if the R&A gods so desired is Portmarnock.  Its not my choice as a world beater (neither are several actual Open venues), but it ticks all the boxes as a viable Open course.

Ciao

[Gary Slatter]

The Open is perfect the way it is.  and the winner is really the "Champion golfer of the year". always will be I hope.

[Matthew Hunt]

Donald Trump and his Waterfalls want the Open

RCD held 30,000 for the big 3 senier open but it could be extended.

P.S how come the USA get 3 majors

[Brad Tufts]

Is it just me, or has the question, "What Irish courses are up to the standards of hosting an Open?" turned into "Is it British Open or Open?" and "Is Northern Ireland in Great Britain?"

The asked question was relatively simple....

and the last question above hasn't been solved through warring factions over 100 years.....

[tonyt]

I have a Wimbledon towel! It says, as does all official merchandise 'The Championships Wimbledon'.

Yes, for the purpose of merchandise.

NO, in terms of the actual name of the tournament.

[Ally Mcintosh]

i'm glad i missed this thread...

didn't we have this open / british open debate in detail quite recently?... by the way, i'm all for it being called 'The Open' because it was the first of its kind... doesn't stop it from always being held in the uk... however, when it was first kicked off at prestwick all those years ago, it actually was called 'The British Open'... they binned the 'British' bit quick sharp, probably to show a suitable level of arrogance...

as for the original question, i think portmarnock would be the obvious choice if the open were ever to be held in the republic

[Tony_Muldoon]

Calling Pat Ruddy.  Did I not read somewhere that you made a pot of tea for a visiting party from the R&A and that along with biscuits you offfered them an 8000 yard set up if they wanted it?

Mind you I might have been dreaming

[archie_struthers]

 

Recently returned from a great trip to Ireland where we spent three days at Portrush. Despite the marvelous hospitality of the members, notably Ian Bamford our host, the weather was so bad that I couldn't totally appreciate all the intricacies of the golf course. However, it just reeks of GOLF and History!

I happened to take the right path walking to my tee shot on number five and felt like we were in Brigadoon, or the golfing equilvalent. Perhaps Tolkein played some golf. as you could get inspiration for "There and Back Again" on any foray into the heather.  What a marvelous place!  

Fantastic greens, Joe Daley, Calamity et al, and plenty of liquid refreshments with the locals war stories on greats opf golf, and not so great, can't beat it.

Welllllllllllllllllllllll, of course there's Royal County Down!!!!  

Hard to separate the two, and an Open at either would be fabulous!

[archie_struthers]

Somehow missed Ian Dalzells' post, which addresses the business side of the equation.

He's certainly right about the logistical impossibilities inherent in the Open as it exists today.

However one can wish for a miracle!