Why a bunker here?

[Sean_A]

I am not sure why bunkers between water and greens/fairways became vogue, but they sure are.  As part of my ongoing campaign against excessive bunkering, these are the sort of chaps that are prime targets for elimination.  Do archies ever build mounds in situations like above?  Can anyone photoshop this pic with a mound?



BTW  I in no way am laying into Mike.  I have already stated how much I admire the photo tour of Long Shadow.  This just happens to be a handy pic.  

Ciao

[ed_getka]

Sean,
   What is the problem with the bunker? It could potentially save a shot that is a little off line, rather than being a sure water ball. It looks deep enough to be considered a hazard by most, but you still get to take a swing at the ball rather than just taking a penalty stroke.
   Which Mike are you referring to?

[Sean Leary]

Looks a little like 12 at Augusta to me, considered one of the best par 3's in the world..

[Chris_Clouser]

Sean L. just alluded to what I was thinking.  I wonder if the popularity has something to do with the popularity of the 12th hole at Augusta.  

I read a book, Golf by Design I believe, where RTJ Jr. talks about different bunkers and notes a type of bunker that is used to catch wayward shots and preventing them from truly disasterous results that a player could probably not recover from.  I forget the actual name he gave it, but I've seen these bunkers at several courses by different architects.  

[John Kavanaugh]

Does the eighth at Sebonack have a similar bunker..please, give Mike more crap as it would kill me if he became a ratings whore.

[Glenn Spencer]

Looks a little like 12 at Augusta to me, considered one of the best par 3's in the world..

I said the same thing on the Long Shadow thread, especially the pic from behind the green. I like that bunker there. Doesn't it make you hit a more clean shot if you want to catch the ridge and just have 15 feet for birdie?

[Matt_Cohn]

I've always thought #12 at Augusta would be better if the front bunker were replaced by more green space, perhaps a small swale slightly lower than the rest of the green which would create a risk/reward choice off the tee for that pin position, and would leave a very scary recovery from behind the green.

[Sean Leary]

Looks a little like 12 at Augusta to me, considered one of the best par 3's in the world..

I said the same thing on the Long Shadow thread, especially the pic from behind the green. I like that bunker there. Doesn't it make you hit a more clean shot if you want to catch the ridge and just have 15 feet for birdie?

Just stealing your ideas, Glenn.

In essence, I agree with Sean A that many course have too many bunker.  At my home course, I was told Faz put in a couple of greenside bunkers at the end of construction where it would have been way cooler without them (for those who have played it, the fronting bunkers on 4 and 10 were late additions).  Sean, I believe it was solely done for asthetics...

[Glenn Spencer]

Looks a little like 12 at Augusta to me, considered one of the best par 3's in the world..

I said the same thing on the Long Shadow thread, especially the pic from behind the green. I like that bunker there. Doesn't it make you hit a more clean shot if you want to catch the ridge and just have 15 feet for birdie?

Just stealing your ideas, Glenn.

In essence, I agree with Sean A that many course have too many bunker.  At my home course, I was told Faz put in a couple of greenside bunkers at the end of construction where it would have been way cooler without them (for those who have played it, the fronting bunkers on 4 and 10 were late additions).  Sean, I believe it was solely done for asthetics...

Sean,

If stealing my ideas is your new business, I highly recommend that you do not quit your day job.    I don't know what Mike was thinking, but when I see that bunker short of the ridge, I imagine that the architect wanted to punish a shot that was hit too low without spin and see it in the back bunker, therefore rewarding the high soft shot which catches the ridge and leaves a nice birdie chance.

[Mike_Young]

Does the eighth at Sebonack have a similar bunker..please, give Mike more crap as it would kill me if he became a ratings whore.

John,
I have heard if one becomes a ratings whore they have a hard time walking 18 holes....
Sean and Glenn,
What was I thinking....not much.....
But I sort of thought for a few seconds or maybe a minute that a bunker would look cool there plus it allowed me to tie a ridge thru the green and since I had a lake bank that would be maintained as short grass the bunker would allow one to hit to middle of green and if short not roll into water...but mainly it was cool...BTW I am changing the plants in the back bunkers to fescue....

[Chris Perry]

Photoshopped mound.  

[Sean Leary]

I like it with the bunker.

[Jeff_Brauer]

What does a mound accomplish?  If I were to change the green to avoid the two step hazard, I would just push the green edge to the water and have a constant bank.

There may be some reasons for pushing the green back. At Cowboys, our third green was going to be right on the water, but someone decided a sewer line had to go through right there, so we moved it back.  While we didn't use a bunker, its far enough back that some might consider tying water together with green visually.

Personally, I would have more tendency to have the save bunker along the water on early holes in the round, when on the slice side and on longer holes, and push the water right to the green edge on shorter approaches, and later holes.  As always, thats just a general rule.

[paul cowley]

Mike...if it were me I would build some faux ruins of an old mill house in the area where you are going to replace the plants and then fill the bunker area with water to replicate an old out race pond from an under shot water wheel system...I think that could be really cool .

...actually, ignore my comments and I'll go back to enjoying the glimpses of your latest creation.....good stuff.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Paul,

You drinking again?

[paul cowley]

no ....but fixin to be.

[Mike_Young]

Mike...if it were me I would build some faux ruins of an old mill house in the area where you are going to replace the plants and then fill the bunker area with water to replicate an old out race pond from an under shot water wheel system...I think that could be really cool .

...actually, ignore my comments and I'll go back to enjoying the glimpses of your latest creation.....good stuff.

your boy Jeff J did that stuff....I found an old school bus that will fit back there as a half way house......

[Tom_Doak]

Sean:

Usually when I have used a bunker at the edge of a hazard, it was being used as an environmental buffer -- the authorities would prefer 25 feet of unmowed grass at the edge of hazards, but golfers hate that, and a bunker which doesn't require pesticides or fertilizer is a good compromise.

John K:

There is a bunker on the left of the 8th at Sebonack, but if you wind up in it you would already have cleared the water hazard.  I suppose we could have made the water hazard that much bigger if we had wanted, but it's pretty tough as it is ... the bunker makes it a bit less severe and breaks up the long line of the bank between the green and the water, which nearly always looks artificial.