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[Gary Daughters]

I’ve always relished the drive from Atlanta to Augusta.  About 40 miles down I-20 the Piedmont starts in earnest, and you can’t help but marvel at the rising and tumbling of the pastureland on either side of the highway.  Atypically for Georgia it seems like an almost pine-free zone, although you do start to see more conifers as you cross Lake Oconee and head toward Augusta.

At Madison, just before the lake, two-lane Route 441 crosses north and south and offers a magnified view of the odd beauty you can see from I-20.  As one further point of reference, the magazine Progressive Farmer ranks two of the counties in this nexus in the top 200 for places to live in America (Oconee #3 and Putnam #141 )

Whenever I get out on these roads I’m always looking out the window and imagining golf holes, or perhaps more accurately wishing for golf holes.  Mike Young’s Long Shadow is 2 miles south of I-20 on 441, just past the cows.

As you may have read the front-9 is open for play, with the back-9 to come after spring grow-in.  Long Shadow is vast with no rough to speak of.  It will get very windy.  Getting off the fairway makes you really think.  The greens are such that if you want to make par you need to hit them.

Here are some pictures

Up to the third green.  Par 5, 540 Gold (Black is all the way back)




Several pictures of the par 5 #5, perhaps the most dramatic hole on a course that doesn't over-emphasize drama.

From the tee:




From the fairway:




From a hill to the left:




From behind the green, looking back up the fairway:




#7 green looking back up the fairway:




From the tee at the par 3 #8




Wedge to the green at the par 4 #9;  past the chain is a very steep drop.  The shot is very touchy:




I played the front nine and had a great time.  The back nine looks as though it could be spectacular.  #10:




Two pictures of #12:






Green at the par 3 #13




Looking up to the green at par 4 #14:




From behind #14 green:




#15 green par 4



#16 tee with a forced carry over a finger of the lake dipping in from the right:



#16 green, which looks to be a very tough shot:



I missed Mike's monstrous punchbowl green at the par 3 #17.

Here's the 18th green, viewed from behind:




By the way, Mike looks a little like Dean Smith.

[cary lichtenstein]

Looks excellent

Why don't we try to get A gca event in Georgia, Long Shadow, Engh"s new course and Augusta/or Cuscowilla.

[Geoffrey Childs]

Thanks for those photos. The course looks really nice.

Many of the hazards seem to be "gathering" and would appear to draw in golf balls from distances outside the confines of the hazard thereby playing larger then they appear.

Mike - is that the case and did you build that way intentionally?  

[Gary Daughters]

Geoffrey,

The pot bunker on #5 absolutely sucked in my "perfect" recovery shot from right of the tree.

Cary,

Set us up at Augusta and I'll take care of the rest

[Jason Blasberg]

In a word, Bold!

A unique style on a grand scale.  I'm looking forward to see it in person.  

The green contouring looks excellent!

[Jason Blasberg]

From the tee view and green to tee view #5 reminds me of the feel of #11 at Tobacco Road.  In fact, much of the scale (at least from what I can sense from the photos) reminds me of Tobacco Road.  

Completely different site but Long Shadow grabs you visually from every angle I've seen.  

[Tim Gavrich]

I agree with the above praise.  My father and I were able to play the front nine as it was being finished this past June, and I really liked how bold it was.  Mr. Young has a knack for finding great places for skyline greens.  Number 3 at Long Shadow was a cool hole.  And at Cateechee, #4 required a similarly neat shot to a skyline green (albeit on a par 4).

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I like the look of this course so much, that I'm trying to buy a ticket from Delta to get out there a week from Thursday! Right now, Delta.com is down!

[Mike_Sweeney]

Mike,

Uphill blind shots to skyline greens over Alps-like bunker, flat-bottomed bunkers with sharp angles, rolling greens and no rough. Mike say it ain't so, you are an Old Dead Guy fan!  

Looks great, what kind of grass is that on the greens?

[Mike_Young]

Mike,

Uphill blind shots to skyline greens over Alps-like bunker, flat-bottomed bunkers with sharp angles, rolling greens and no rough. Mike say it ain't so, you are an Old Dead Guy fan!  

Looks great, what kind of grass is that on the greens?

I had the pleasure of meeting Gary yesterday at the course......I had been to a funeral so we did not have much time to talk but thanks for the photos.....I'm impressed someone knows how to post photos on here.
Hey Mike.....I have always been an "old dead guy fan" you have never seen where I said I wasn't....I just don't believe all the myths....grass is L-93 bent....still have some trees to come down etc....
I think bil McBride may be planning something down that way next year.....
Mike

[BCrosby]

Long Shadow is going to be a very, very good course.

The photos are great, showing the dramatic fw contours (unusual for a course in this area) and Mike's "Rossnor" bunkering style. But my three favorites were not included. The skyline greens on 2 and 11 and the monstrous punch bowl 17th. Anyone got pictures of those greens?

Don't let Mike fool you about the old dead guys. He's forgotten more about them than most of us know.

I asked him several months ago if his 10th didn't borrow from NGLA's Bottle Hole. Mike replied, "Gee wizz, I'm just a country boy tryin' to figure out this fancy architecture stuff. Tell me again about this Bottle Hole thing." That's when I knew it was time to get in the car and head home.

(BTW, Mike fessed up. His 10th is in fact based on the Bottle Hole. I can't wait to play it. You don't see many of them.)

Bob

 

[John Kavanaugh]

I like the trees left in the bunkers...kinda Muirfield Village meets Pine Valley.

[Philip Young]

Gary,

I had already started another thread a few weeks back on this same topic and I am so glad to see that you have done so as well.

Let me repeat what I said in the other thread, this is going to be a VERY SPECIAL GOLF COURSE!

The course is going to be ranked in every Top 100 list from the moment it qualifies and not in the bottom 10 either.

I can't encourage all to get out there now BEFORE the back nine opens in the spring. If you have any inkling that you might enjoy the course design process this is that rarest of opportunities to see what WILL BE considered one of the MUST PLAYS and GREAT COURSES of our era as it evolves.

We sit and argue here about what this architect meant, was that an "Alps Hole" or where was this dead guy at this time... This course is what we wait for.

When I played the course a few weeks back I got a big kick out of his laughter as a putt that looked straight would break a foot and run three by and then hear him chuckle how, "Wait another two-three weeks when we can cut these suckers! These are really going to move!"

The greens as a group look as if someone had walked to a spot and said, "I think I'll put a flagstick here" and did so. They don't give the impression that they had to be built as much as carved out of the perfect location for the challenge that Mike was trying to present the player with.

Individually they greatly vary in size and are clearly designed to accept proper played shots while punishing the poorly executed ones. They are both fair and 'fun' severe.

The bunkers, Geoff asked if they "gather." No, Geoff, they don't gather, they jump out and swallow the ball down! They have minimal flat areas at their bottoms and so are actual hazards, yet each have ways out, regardless of how the ball may lie, if one accepts the penalty.

The back nine is going to be monumental.

Each hole gets better and better leading to a group of fin ishing holes that every player will one day sit in whattever clubhouse that might be built and laugh with their friends at how they "ate them up" and were still so enjoyable to play.

13 is Mike's homage to the 12th at Augusta, though I believe that it also plays like Augusta's 13th green as well. That is one hell of a statement, but after seeing it in person and rolling a few balls on the green with Mike, I am convinced of it.

The water is a good distance back from the hole (unlike #12) but (like #12) with the angle of the ground and his intent to mow the grass a bit tight, balls with hit just in front of the green and suck on back into the water. You know from the tee that you m for safety and there in lies his devilish rewarding of accuracy as the green, extremely wide is a bit narrow from front to back. If you carry past the putting surface, and the misstruck shot will, what you are left with is frightening!

You can't appreciate from the photos above just how far back the bunker behiond the green are. They are built into a huge swale and so are actually 25 - 30 feet away from the green surface; one that does roll downhill and away from you in two directions around the knob of the front bunker. I can see someone hitting a hot shot that can find itself rolling on down to the water.

The swale behind the hole is to be closely mown and so anyone long has a myriad of choices of play. He can Putt, chip lob... whatever choice is made will take a very deft touch to pull off.

15 is going to put the driver into some players hand while taking it out of others; some will want to see if they can carry the bunkers and get on down in front of, if not actually on, the green, whereas others will see that only accuracy will allow this to happen, not distance. It is a superb driving hole.

16 is visually intimidating from the tee. The player will stand there and convince himself that there is so little landing area that to stay away from the water on the right they will overplay in hitting left. It is only after getting out there that one sees just how very wide the landing area is and how much it runs downhill from the left side to the right; and right is well rewarded.

17 is a monstrously long par-three from the championship tees (240+), uphill into an even more monstrous punch bowl green that will see golf balls rolling in every conceivable direction except maybe the one the player wants. Regardless of the tee the player. Just one look and you'll want to play this one over and over and over again.

18 is going to be a tremendous finishing hole. A long, but reachable par-five in two shots, it is that rarest of holes where the student of the game will quickly learn that he who goes for it in two will make a 6 or 7 while played as a three-shotter makes par or what would be an extremely rare birdie possible.

If, or should I say when, a shot not perfectly played comes into the green, you will pray that it finds a bunker because if not your ball may end up from 15 feet to 50 yards away from the putting surface, and the closer it is the tougher the recovery.

I again can't say enough about this wonderful course... This is that course that YOU will want to be the one to discover and bring friends out and introduce them to it.

It just sits there 40 minutes tops from midtown Atlanta... You have to play this... Raters, get down there, you will all be deeply impressed.

I guarantee that when Mike, far in the future, becomes one of those "dead guys" he talks about, he will be laughing with glee at some of the play and thrilled at champions this course will produce.    

[Gary Daughters]

Philip,

Speaking of bunkers that swallow down balls, here are 2 you probably noticed, from the first hole:




Here's a view of the 13th green that shows how shallow it is:


Bob,

#2 green was very hard to get an angle on, and I was whipping around pretty fast while the light was favorable:



This photo doesn't come close to capturing the severity of the green.  I had to chip up, didn't make the ridge and had the ball roll back about 10 feet.  Dropped a second ball and had the same thing occur.  The green makes #2.

[Philip Young]

Gary,

I definitely noticed those bunkers on 1 and am still "looking for my balls!"

[Gary Daughters]

I lost mine as well.. on the tee

[Tim Copeland]

Hmmmmm

I came back to add something to a previous post and it is gone.

I still like the bunkers........

[Glenn Spencer]

When it comes to fun and interesting, it appears that this course would indeed cast a long shadow. It looks absolutely marvelous. I can't say that I have been around the block as much as some, but I can't seem to compare it to another course in my mind. I would think that would be a great thing. I think 7 looks like a hole that I would really enjoy. 13 green reminds me of the Sunday pin at The Masters though.

[John_Cullum]

What is the architects preferred method for maintaining the bunker faces?

[Adam Clayman]

My guess is he lets the super send out guys who use fly mowers?

Mike, Looks wonderful. The only question I have is trivial, but...
 Do trees stand the test of time when they stand alone?

[Mike_Young]

John,
Fly mows and growth regulator......

Adam....
If it was up to me there would be no trees....but there is always compromise..few more coming down.....
the lone tree you probably speak of actually was two about 10 yards apart and we kept both until the last minute .......just a few copper nails and we will be ok....

[John_Cullum]

Thanks Mike. Thats what I expected your answer to be.

I asked that because I know you are very mindful of the maintenance budget when you design your courses, and as I understand it, those will require some additional expense. That tells me the developers expect to have a maintenace budget suitable for such a fine course.

Congatulations on being so well received by this august body of critics.

[A.G._Crockett]

Mike,
The course just looks great; I really look forward to seeing it next spring.  It looks as good as everything that I have heard about it.

Also, really, really cool thread title:

"Mike Young's Long Shadow"

Sounds like you are Bear Bryant or John Wooden ...

[RJ_Daley]

I'd also like to add my appreciation for the great photo tour.  Is there any link to a website?  I googled one up but it must be under construction, because I can't get it to come up on the screen.  

From my quick look-see while it was being built, the course looked quite walkable.  Will it be, and can public play there?

The shaping work looks very good, and suggests some really interesting options to play the course.

Tommy don't just get fired up to go anywhere to "look" at a golf course.   I'd pay well to see Tommy and Mike's pal Charlie give this course a thourough going over, while riding in the same cart

[Gary Daughters]

I just had another look at the bunkers on #12.  Are those Halloween eyes?  Scarrrrrrry

[John_Cullum]

I just had another look at the bunkers on #12.  Are those Halloween eyes?  Scarrrrrrry

I think that is Desmond Muirhead's influence on Mike's designs.

[Mike_Cirba]

Looks very intriguing.

I will definitely seek out this course the next time I'm in Atlanta, hopefully this coming spring.

Mike, it seems that you've pleased a tough crowd here.   That ain't an easy thing.

[Chris Cupit]

The course is going to be ranked in every Top 100 list from the moment it qualifies and not in the bottom 10 either.

The back nine is going to be monumental.

13 is Mike's homage to the 12th at Augusta, though I believe that it also plays like Augusta's 13th green as well. That is one hell of a statement, but after seeing it in person and rolling a few balls on the green with Mike, I am convinced of it.

Phillip,

I have also been to Longshadow and I think that many people on their way down I-20 to Eatonton should absolutely save the gas and stop by Madison because I, too, think that this will be a very good golf course.

BUT,  it's a little too early to claim that it belongs in the top 90 courses in the world!  C'mon!  The back nine is not even open.  Again, I am not at all trying to rain on Mike's parade but your comments are so over the top that they hardly pass the giggle test.

All courses evolve and in fairness to Mike, such lofty claims before the course is completely grown in and open can only set the expectations bar beyond achievable.  All the hype and talk of Top 100 lists is the last thing that serious students of the game should be advancing.

I know you are a senior member but I also can't understand what you mean in describing a par 3 hole that pays homage to #12 at Augusta but has a green that plays like #13 at Augusta.  I've been lucky enough to play there a few times and I dont know how the two holes are at all similar--although they do both have a creek.

Again, the pictures look great and I think the course will be loads of fun to play, BUT before you proclaim it the best of its kind of an era, let's give it at least 15 minutes after it opens for 18 hole play.

[William King]

Phillip,

do you have any contact info: address, phone?
no luck googling

[Philip Young]

Chris,

I truly believe that this course will be ranked and will deserve it when it is fully open.

My statement that #13 is Mike's homage to #12 at Augusta is because Mike described it that way when I was there. What I meant by it playing like 13 at Augusta was in reference to the area between the backside of the green and the bunkers. Just as 13 at Augusta drops down into a pronounced depression between bunker and green edge, so does Mike's. Anyone playing out of the bunkers will face choices similar to 13 at Augusta in that if it is at all short it may not get on the green and just at Augusta, the green runs down and away from the player. In addition, if the tee shot ends up in the chipping area rather than the bunker, the player faces a very real choice of club and how to play, from putter, to bump and run to lob wedge.

I should have said that it plays like the area behind the 13th at Augusta.

Does that make more sense?

Also, what's this "senior member" crap? If you think I am wrong, without understanding or just a plain old idiot feel very free to join the club and take me to task.  

[Chris Cupit]

The reason I mentioned Sr. Member was that since you have made a good number of posts over (I assume) a fairly lengthy period of time, I was surprised at how enthusiastic you were.

It just seemed a bit too much and it sounded more like a comment from someone new rather than from someone who had "been around the block" and had seen a lot of courses at various stages of development.  I guess I was saying that I didn't expect that kind of hyperbole from a seasoned veteran .

With the #13/#12 stuff, I hear what you are saying about the depression (added by Nicklaus I think 20 years ago or so) behind #13.  It does complicate the chipping so I get how that could parallel the area behind Mike's green.  However, the green complexes of #12 and #13 are so enormously different that I was not sure how Mike's hole could be inspired by one hole and play like the other.

I do not disagree that the course will be ranked nor am I saying that it shouldn't be--I am saying that to declare it in the top 90 courses on every Top 100 list prior to it opening is hype and not analysis.

   

[Philip Young]

Chris, you said that, "I guess I was saying that I didn't expect that kind of hyperbole from a seasoned veteran..."

This is the very first time I have ever gone what some would consider overboard with praise about a new course... ever. But I am really that impressed with what I see as a design that deserves to receive critical aclaim right out of the box. After all, every few years there is a course that receives it and deserves it, and so someone has to sing their praises first. I just feel fortunate that it might have been me...

I am disappointed though that you took me to task BEFORE I played Rivermont!  

[Chris Cupit]

Phillip,

Bring your clubs (and your hyperbole) and come to Rivermont as fast as you can!!

Seriously, we have opened all 18 and whenever you and Gary are ready, just let me know.

Chris

[ed_getka]

Mike,
   Congratulations on the course. It looks to be an interesting test of golf.
   What is the average sq. footage of the greens?
Gary,
    Thanks for posting the pix and letting us know about this project. How many greens set up shallow to your approach shot? Could you describe a favorite hole there and what you liked about it?

[Gary Daughters]

Ed,

I'll try to answer as best as I can, and I'll confine my responses to the front nine since those are the holes I played.  I know others may differ, but I can't begin to try to decode a course's DNA without at least sticking a club in the ground.

The way the greens are shaped and the way the greenside bunkers are aligned, virtually any green can set up pretty shallow depending on pin placement.  A hole I haven't mentioned is #4, which was playing about 210 downhill with the pin fairly snug to the edge of a fronting bunker.  It is a very good hole.  My persimmon 3-wood hit 6 feet past the hole and stopped at maybe 10.. I'm not sure how.




One of my favorite holes, and I mentioned this to Mike, was the short to medium par 4 #6.  It's probably the simplest hole at Long Shadow, but I really like the way the small, narrow green angles away from the line of the fairway.  It looks benign, but anything long is absolutely dead.  When the stick is front-right, as it was when I played, you can play safely left and use the slope to kick your ball toward the hole.  When the pin is back left, which is extremely narrow.. well, I'm looking very forward to trying that.  With this photo you have to use your imagination a little.