[Jim Nugent]

One of this site's better writers, an attorney by trade, once argued that societies with extensive legal controls (translation: voluminous laws and codes covering with specificity nearly all behavior and conceivable contingencies) operated more efficiently and with less crime.  He could not offer any real world examples to support his point, but I suppose that if efficiency and the relative absence of crime were the primary objectives for a society, this may be possible.

Personally, I value liberty and the pursuit of happiness infinitely higher than security and equality of outcome (what some mistankingly refer to as fairness and justice), so no, don't muck up the PGA Tour with mandatory testing.  Besides, what is broken about the Tour that needs fixin'?

Oh, by the way, I am taking Metformin, Glipizide, Zocor, Zetia, Lisinopril, and various vitamins, fish oils, and other things for joints, arthritis, and muscle pains.  Hopefully these are helping me stay alive longer and allowing me to play golf.  Personally, I don't believe in the Tooth Fairy nor the Great Wizard who will make errorless decisions on my behalf.

Though I don't see it is a constitutional issue, I think that Doug Ralston is right on.  If the Tour chooses to test its members, I hope it realizes the Pandora's box that it is opening.  As others have noted, 'roids are but the tip of the iceberg.  There are all sorts of things which might be legislated.  Who amongst us possesses the infinite wisdom to decide what is appropriate and what provides an "unfair" advantage?  Some who star in the 19th hole may decide that the practice tee should be available only for fifteen minutes before and after the round.  Who is to say that banning ibuprophem is a ridiculous notion?

       

IMO there is as much crime or more in nations with far-reaching legal systems and societal controls.  The difference is that more crime takes place on an entirely different dimension: the government, bureaucratic and power dimension.  There are less checks and balances on the people who run those countries.  They behave accordingly.  

I usually agree with you, Lou, on the issues you bring up, but drug testing is not one.  The PGA tour is a private enterprise.  It should be free to establish drug regulations as it sees fit.  

[Adam Clayman]

Or not!

[Geoffrey Childs]

One of this site's better writers, an attorney by trade, once argued that societies with extensive legal controls (translation: voluminous laws and codes covering with specificity nearly all behavior and conceivable contingencies) operated more efficiently and with less crime.  He could not offer any real world examples to support his point, but I suppose that if efficiency and the relative absence of crime were the primary objectives for a society, this may be possible.

Personally, I value liberty and the pursuit of happiness infinitely higher than security and equality of outcome (what some mistankingly refer to as fairness and justice), so no, don't muck up the PGA Tour with mandatory testing.  Besides, what is broken about the Tour that needs fixin'?

Oh, by the way, I am taking Metformin, Glipizide, Zocor, Zetia, Lisinopril, and various vitamins, fish oils, and other things for joints, arthritis, and muscle pains.  Hopefully these are helping me stay alive longer and allowing me to play golf.  Personally, I don't believe in the Tooth Fairy nor the Great Wizard who will make errorless decisions on my behalf.

Though I don't see it is a constitutional issue, I think that Doug Ralston is right on.  If the Tour chooses to test its members, I hope it realizes the Pandora's box that it is opening.  As others have noted, 'roids are but the tip of the iceberg.  There are all sorts of things which might be legislated.  Who amongst us possesses the infinite wisdom to decide what is appropriate and what provides an "unfair" advantage?  Some who star in the 19th hole may decide that the practice tee should be available only for fifteen minutes before and after the round.  Who is to say that banning ibuprophem is a ridiculous notion?

There are all sorts of well-intended things which become mandatory through law and police power.  I just learned that in Santa Monica, CA, by city code, any apartment property with 10 or more units must have a manager on site.  Any wonder why a small one bedroom 600 s.f. unit in that beautiful
city rents on average for over $2,000 per month?  It is infinitely easier to incrementally give up our liberty in small pieces than it is to ever get it back.  Be careful what you ask for.  You might get it.
         

My goodness - I agree with everything that you said here Lou.  

Luckily perhaps I'm only on Lisinopril, and various vitamins, fish oils, and I'm alternating between aleve and advil depending on the aches and pains involved.

[Lou_Duran]

Jim Nugent,

I am not arguing that the PGA doesn't have the right to set its own rules including one for testing its members for drugs.  It most surely does.

I am suggesting that it should not.  Among the reasons for my stance, some which have been already stated, is the likely exposure to unnecessary notice that such policies would likely bring and intrusion from the folks with the real power- our benevolent government.  Far fetched?  Do you remember the Casey Martin fiasco?

Drug policies and laws have all sorts of nuance, not to say anything about emotional and even rational uncertainty.  Does the PGA Tour which seems squeaky clean really want to jump in head first into this mess?

My suggestion: if there is a problem with illegal drug use, pursue the lawbreakers through the criminal justice system.  If a Tour member, jealous or virtuous, accuses another of taking an illegal advantage, the Tour and the member should cooperate fully with the authorities to get to the bottom of the matter.  If there is no solid, credible evidence to compel the needle or the cup, that should be the end of it.  The accused, of course, should be notified of the charge and the identity of the accuser.

Geoffrey,

I am surprised.  Maybe the recent election had a salutary, calming effect.    

[Steve Lang]

 

as one that has had to piss in a bottle for years because of company policies, i find it a complete waste of time and money and I dread the psychological terrorism imposed.. waiting  for that false positive result..

i don't want to see it in golf...

as independent contractors, the players may just have to step up and fill the bottle to put this behind them and move on..

of course you know the food police are comin next.. I'm sorry Mr Woods.. you can't eat two bananas on the back nine.. your blood sugar levels are elevated!

[Lou_Duran]

Steve,

I didn't even think about the false positive problem, which though not commonplace, is real.

Awhile ago, a friend told me of an acquaintance whose teenage daughter was having some physical problems and tested positive for some STD.  When told, the girl went into hysterics, reportedly damn near suicidal.  The parents questioned their daughter, themselves and how they raised her, and had a very tough time coming to terms with the new reality.  The doctor who ordered the tests was recommending some serious treatments and with some haste.

The girl pleaded that she hadn't had the type of contact that the medical people said was necessary for transmission, and the family got a second opinion and a new set of tests.  Guess what?  The girl just had some common hygiene related infection treated successfully with pills, and not what the initial tests showed.  Great news, but the trauma and distraught that the oringinal false positive generated apparently lingers.

Now, imagine if instead of this anonymous girl it was Tiger Woods or Phil Michelson whose test results were bogus.  Like Lance Armstrong who will never be cleared in the eyes of the public no matter what the evidence is, the image of a "dirty" golf superstar wouldn't go away.  I can just see the jealous, distance deprived competitor snicker under his breath on the condition of anonymity to a reporter about Tiger driving a 400 yard green.  Or the hack at the country club who can't get the ball airborne remarking in the 19th hole for everyone to hear that he needs to get the same "prescription".  Guilty without the opportunity of being found innocent.

Are there guys on the Tour taking illegal drugs?  Possible.  Are they having an impact on the game?  I very seriously doubt it.  The type of drug usage that apparently plagues other sports can't be beneficial for golf in the long run.  Golf is a game where competitors within a relevant range, say upper 20s to 30s, seem to get better with age.  Those who cheat are likely just the marginal players and they are only shooting themselves in the foot.  The drugs will only speed the process of natural selection.

Now, I am just waiting for a GCAer to argue that steroid abuse is driving the desecration of classical courses as owners and members seek additional yardage.  Or a thread "What tricks does the thoughtful modern architect have up his sleeve to overcome unfair, drug induced advantages of the cheatin' professional golfer".  Can't wait.  

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