Re: my agronomy assertion. I was referring to green speed because the best redan I have played (#7 at Shinnecock) typically repels my shots because of the speed of the greens. Most of my shots (my good shots) filter off the left or back left of the green. The speed in those days would have limited this. True, todays trajectories are much higher so that might account for balls bouncing over easier then.
I understood that you were talking about green speed, but thanks for the clarification. Again, I dont think it would make much of a difference. If it did, then NGLA's Redan would have been much less interesting than MacDonald describes.
Certainly, the slower green speeds would impact how far the ball
rolls once it quits bouncing and settles onto the green. But my understanding is that conditions were much firmer back then, through the green. Firmer ground leads to bigger bounces; and firmer ground which falls away leads to much bigger bounces. Combine this with the equipment they used in those days (not only a somewhat lower trajectories, but also less backspin) and I cant imagine the slower greenspeed making much of a difference.
I guess it is possible that the harder ground actually allowed the lefty (or a righty on a reverse) to hit a fade and still get the ball to take the slope, or even for the grass to slow down a ball so much that a lefty could hold a draw into NGLA's redan. But if this is true, it would strip the hole of much of its interest. Plus, it sure doesnt sound like the green speed made much of a difference in MacDonald's description of how NGLA's redan played.
David,
With all due respect, that's the type of response that makes one think you've got an agenda as opposed to an open mind in this conversation. The instructions (from CBM, not me) are to tilt the land and then approach it from the angle. Regardless, it never tilts towards the tee as #3 at Merion does. At best it slopes straight right to left.
So far as I know, I have no agenda, but am rather trying to understand these terms in in the context of how they were used at the time.
With all due respect, I think your interpretation of MacDonald's quote is quite stretched. The quote is the first sentence in his GI article on the Redan. MacDonald was not providing "instructions" as to how to build a Redan, but was rather simply describing a Redan. Moreover, while your exercise was fun and has a certain logic to it, its validity depends upon the assumption that the order in which MacDonald listed the features has special significance, and I dont think the order had any special significance.
As far as your implication that this is evidence of some secret agenda on my part, I am not sure how you get that from what I posted. If a tableland naturally slopes slightly up and tilts one way or another, then approaching it from an angle doesnt create a downslope, but rather a sideslope. That was the point of my response.
As far as the hole at Merion goes, I could be wrong, but my recollection was that the green does slope from left to right, toward the bunker. I don't think that it falls away and I havent seen any compelling evidence that it used to fall away. But MacDonald considered it a Redan anyway.
MacDonald's usage of the word 'Redan' is entirely consistent with
my intepretation of the quote. But don't worry, I won't infer bad faith on your part for construing the quote in a manner which MacDonald contradicts in the very same article.