[Philip Gawith]

On the Woking thread Tom Doak describes how he copied the strategy for this hole from the 3rd at Woking, and describes how he built the green.

Can anyone post some pics of this hole so we can see for ourselves, whether on this thread or the Woking thread?

I am sorry I did not take a picture of the 3rd green - it would have helped!

[Eric Olsen]

In the course review of Pacific Dunes, there is a nice picture of the green complex from the upper right side of the fairway on 8, fairly close to the green, but it doesn't give you the angle that you see from the left side of the fairway, where you either go over or play around the bunker, and use the slope that Doak describes to bring the ball back onto the putting service.  

[Pete Lavallee]

Here is a picture of the 3rd green at Woking from the right edge of the fairway:

[Pete Lavallee]

And the 8th at Pacific Dunes:

[Tom_Doak]

Wow, they look more alike than I would have guessed, at least from that angle in a photograph.

I didn't dig out my old photos of Woking back when we were building the hole at Pacific Dunes ... I just remembered how it worked, and tried to build the same strategy into the green in Bandon.  Perhaps a pretty good case study for how Old Macdonald should work ...

[Sean_A]

Assuming the angles are somewhat similar the big difference I can see are the size of the greens.  Was the Woking green larger at one time?  Gosh if you extend the left side of Woking's green the similarity is amazing.  Tom, I will always bow to your memory in the future.  Its scary how close you got it!

Ciao

[Geoffrey Childs]

Can you get to a right hand pin by using the slope right of the green and bunker at Woking as you can at Pac Dunes?

To me that strategy is one of the cooler aspects of any hole at PD.  If that was copied from Woking then its a good template but if not then I think the hole at Pac Dunes is inherently more interesting and superior.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

8 at Pacific Dunes is one of my favorite green complexes on earth. If Tom took the concept from Woking then I must play there on the next trip to the UK. the right pin placements get all the glamer with the ability to work the ball and feed it. The left side with the steep front and rear trap becomes a real challenge anytime but especially down wind.

[Bill_McBride]

Can you get to a right hand pin by using the slope right of the green and bunker at Woking as you can at Pac Dunes?

To me that strategy is one of the cooler aspects of any hole at PD.  If that was copied from Woking then its a good template but if not then I think the hole at Pac Dunes is inherently more interesting and superior.

Geoff, absolutely, and it is fun to watch.  Last time there I hit my shot out there a bit too firmly and it hung up in the thicker fescue above and didn't run back down onto the green.  

If in charge I would immediately demand the closer trimming of that area!  

[Geoffrey Childs]

Bill

     

It seems then that Tom D has the template thing down just right and that's good karma for Old Macdonald.  With Old Man Bahto on board, however, the bunker will be deeper  

[Dan_Callahan]

Funny . . . one man's template is another man's plagiarism. It's a fine line between stupid and clever.

[Philip Gawith]

Thank you Pete - that is very instructive!

[Michael Dugger]

Funny . . . one man's template is another man's plagiarism. It's a fine line between stupid and clever.

A great man said using one source is plagiarism, numerous is research.


That man was Norbert Painter

[Michael Dugger]

How about four images?

[ChipRoyce]

Phillip;
Thanks for point this out to the treehouse. I enjoyed this hole immensely during my visit over a month ago.

What I love about this hole is the ability to play right and possibly past the hole depending on pin position and/or to take the bunker out of play from a difficult lie in the rough.

The 17th at Bandon trails (par 3) also has a similar option - play past the hole into a collection area and chip back up.

Often short, left and right are considered "strategic" options to approach holes (a.la. the road hole). I love the idea to be able to play past the pin without major penalty (ex: seldom achievable on a Tillinghast course).

[ed_getka]

Tom D,
   What is the strategy for the right front pin? I have tried a few different things, each time thinking I hit a really good shot, only to end up at the back of the green, which is no picnic of a putt.

[John Goodman]

Tom D,
   What is the strategy for the right front pin? I have tried a few different things, each time thinking I hit a really good shot, only to end up at the back of the green, which is no picnic of a putt.

Isn't it to "hit it in the forehead" and try to just run it on, with the preferred miss being short?

[Tom Huckaby]

Ed - I'll be curious as to TD's answer... but wouldn't you say to that pin, the only strategy is to abandon hope of getting it close, play to middle of green or bounce off shoulder on right, take inevitable 30 foot uphill putt either way?  And I'd say that if I am Tiger Woods' caddie and he wedge distance in...

Assuming the pin is tucked behind the bunker that is - which is what right front means to me.

It it's placed on the flattish part to the right of the bunker, then one could bounce it in off the right shoulder and get it close.  But tucked behind that bunker one goes at the pin only very foolishly.

No?

TH

[ed_getka]

Tom,
   Tucked behind the bunker, any approach right at it would be foolish for me at least. I seem to get the pin down in the "flat" front right when I play there, and I've tried hitting it on, playing way short to let the ball feed down to the hole, but always seem to end up at the back of the green.
   Most likely explanation is that I suck. I do like the challenge though.

[Doug Wright]

Tom D,
   What is the strategy for the right front pin?
I have tried a few different things, each time thinking
I hit a really good shot, only to end up at the back
of the green, which is no picnic of a putt.

Ed,

The front right pin at PD #8 is one of my favourites
anywhere. Seems like everytime I'm there I get the
same pin placements, which is annoying for the most
part but not when it comes to #8. It's possible to get it close, but you have to hit the right greenside bank
just right and let it trickle down. You're right,
one often ends up deep but that is better than
in the bunker! A really fun second shot.

[ed_getka]

Doug,
   I'll keep trying. As I like to say, "even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes".  
   What I need to do is get out there on one of those free replay rounds in the evening and work on the shot for a little while.

[Tom_Doak]

Ed:  Are you talking about the pin near the front edge of the green, to the right of the bunker?  If that's the one, then you start your approach shot at the bunker with a bit of fade, it hits dead into the slope pin high and rolls down close.  I saw a couple of young ladies get within five feet with that shot at the Curtis Cup.

If you're talking about right behind the bunker, there isn't a good way to get close, but I would be inclined to leave myself to the right.

To me the hardest hole location is sticking out on the left.  That side of the green is about like the Road green at St. Andrews ... I just deliberately play short and hope the ball trickles up there somehow, but I'm happy to putt from just below the green.  Over the green on the left is an easy six.

[Tom Huckaby]

To me the hardest hole location is sticking out on the left.  That side of the green is about like the Road green at St. Andrews ... I just deliberately play short and hope the ball trickles up there somehow, but I'm happy to putt from just below the green.  Over the green on the left is an easy six.

YES!!!!
We got that way left pin last time there.  And dammit, were you watching me play?

Tom "took six from back rear bunker" Huckaby

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Tom I am so with you. I really like trying to find a way on the the front edge. The right pins locations are more fun but for a Sunday placement that left is something else.

[Tim Pitner]

Over the green on the left is an easy six.

I can also confirm that . . . or was it a 3-putt 7?

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