Mackenzie and the East Coast

[David Stamm]

I'm curious if anyone knows why there are not any examples of Mackenzie's work in the North Eastern seaboard. Was it because he never pursued work in the area or just an instance where the oppurtunity never presented itself? It's fun to imagine what he could've done in the Westchester/Mamaroneck area and Hampton's area on Long Island. Unless I've gone brain dead (which my wife assures me is the case), I just can't seem to recall any instance where his name came up for any projects there. Any thoughts?

[Tom_Doak]

Since Dr. MacKenzie was not an American but just passing through, he relied on his "associates" to find the work for him in most cases.  Most of Robert Hunter's contacts were in California and most of Perry Maxwell's were in the midwest, so that's where MacKenzie worked.

He did spend a day with Maxwell at Melrose in Philadelphia making suggestions, and of course did Augusta National with Palmetto as a spin-off.  But overall he spent very little time on the east coast.  Maybe he just figured there was too much competition locally, or maybe he just didn't care for the place.

[Joshua Pettit]

I would suggest that Mr. Hunter would have had plenty of contacts in the north east, after his years spent living in New York and Connecticut, and playing regularly at Shinnecock, The National, and Nassau.  It seems feasible to believe that if MacKenzie had any ambitions of working in that area then Hunter probably could have found him some projects, although I’m not sure MacKenzie would have had the time in his rather busy schedule.  Its interesting to think about what projects he may have not done if he in fact had spent some time on the east coast.  

[TEPaul]

I'm not that sure exactly what the arrangement was in the firm of Colt, Alison and MacKenzie or even when MacKenzie completely split from that company for good (I'm sure it's probably pretty well covered in Doak's book on MacKenzie) but it seems to me when he worked with them those guys sort of worked their own areas of the globe. And there's no question that Hugh Alison seemed to be around the east coast quite a lot.

Maybe MacKenzie sort of understood not to go into his area. As for Harry Colt, I have yet to find anyone who can say if he ever returned to America after 1913.

Those English architects who were on the move obviously liked to partner with architects who were more local like Hunter, Maxwell etc.

We found a letter from Hugh Wilson mentioning that Alison wanted to partner with Flynn. Wilson said he didn't think that was a good idea primarily because Flynn just didn't need Alison at that point.

[David Stamm]

Tom, I wonder if Flynn would've considered working w/ Alison and if so, how that would've effected his work. Would something like this affected his design relationship w/ Toomey? I don't know much about Toomey and don't know his impact on the work Flynn produced.

[wsmorrison]

David,

Toomey and Flynn already had a relationship by the time Alison contacted Flynn to partner up on projects in 1922.  Flynn was a partner in two companies, the design company William S. Flynn, Golf Architect (he was the only designer) and Toomey and Flynn, Contracting Engineers.  Toomey (there are no photographs that exist of him and next to nothing is known of him) was the firm engineer and handled the business administration.  Toomey was 12 years older than Flynn and died in 1933.  Near his death, Toomey told Flynn that he would now have to do all the drinking for the firm.

Flynn must have worked with Alison at Pine Valley on the construction of the alternate 9th green, an Alison design.  Flynn later constructed Burning Tree (1924) according to Alison's specifications.   We don't know how the partnership was presented to Flynn.  We do know that Wilson, Piper and Oakley all suggested he not go into partnership with Alison, that he had great things in store on his own.

[David Stamm]

Thanks Wayne. Nice to know that I'm not the only one that has had a hard time finding out more about Toomey.

I definitely don't think Flynn's career was hurt by not partnering w/ Alison.

[wsmorrison]

It could be that all Alison was proposing was that Flynn build courses for him under Toomey and Flynn.  Or that they would be expanding the design business with two lead designers working a greater number of courses.  Who knows?  It is a good thing that Flynn stayed on his own.  His design business was structured with Flynn the only designer and the construction supervised by his foremen William Gordon and Red Lawrence.  Dick Wilson was second in charge under either of these two foremen.  Flynn's method of only working on a few courses in a given year while others had more of a production line is one reason his courses came out so well, did not get redesigned and stood the test of time.

[Tom_Doak]

Wow, it is amazing how every thread is about Flynn if only you dig deep enough.

[wsmorrison]

'Wow, it is amazing how every thread is about Flynn if only you dig deep enough."

Tom,
It'll happen with you in 60 years; and we may not even have to dig too deep.  Of course, I'll be 110 years old.  Hey, it comes with greatness  

[Jeff_Mingay]

Wayne,

Do you have evidence that Flynn was a big drinker?

[wsmorrison]

Jeff,

No, I don't think he was a big drinker.  I think everyone back then drank a lot more than people do today.  But I don't have any evidence at all that he drank excessively.  Apparently Toomey did drink a lot and he was jokingly passing the torch to Flynn.  Dick Wilson drank a lot and it probably cost him many years off his life.

Interestingly, Flynn took over the building of the West Course at Merion from his brother in law, Fred Pickering, who was responsible for bringing Flynn down to work under him during the East Course construction.  Pickering was sacked for excessive drinking giving Flynn his big break.  By the way, Pickering 52 when he married Flynn's 18 year old sister.  I guess things were different back then.