What makes Shinnecock Hills so difficult? Can difficult still be enjoyable?

[wsmorrison]

The rise to the 8th at Rolling Green is a little higher but it is over a much longer distance.  The rear of RGGC 8 is an upslope in rough.  At SHGC the rear of the green is a closely mown downslope.  Night and day differences but both difficult with the green sloping away from you.  The skyline green effect will be returned to the 10th at SHGC and that will make an intimidating approach even more so.

[wsmorrison]

"Throw HVCC C-2 into that mix as well. In fact, I think that hole might be a good model for a way to improve #2."

It has to be because you're in a dialogue with Mike Malone, because I have no idea what you're talking about here  

The approach to C-2 at HVCC is about as daunting as it gets with no OB or water in the equation.

[mike_malone]

 For the U.S.Open the back of #10 was shaved down and very frightening as far as I could see. At RG the back of the green goes uphill as rough. I can't decide which is worse !

[JESII]

Did you see that Mayday is actually only discussing the last 50 yards or so of each hole? He says #8 at RG and #10 at Sh are similar for 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th shots in. I think he means for the guy that does not reach the green in two it usually takes about 4 more shots to get onto the green from the base of the hill in front. #2 at HVCC C nine has that same feature, don't you think.

What bearing this has in the real world is beyond me, but Mayday is trucking along here with it so let's let him run...

[wsmorrison]

Jim,

Mayday is running alright, away from the men in the white coats    You'd think an old, non-athletic Quaker would have been caught by now.  He's sneaky fast.

Do you want to play golf on Saturday?

[wsmorrison]

BillV,

Tom and I both think that Pine Valley was a great influence on Flynn, and maybe Flynn had an influence on Pine Valley as well (circa 1921).  The Pine Valley influence can be seen in Flynn's use of interrupted fairways and undulating sandy waste areas.  He used these effectively at Atlantic City CC (1923), Denver CC plans (1923), Opa Locka (1926), Boca Raton North and South (1929) and closer to home at Merion East in the quarry on 16.  When Merion East first opened for play, the quarry fronting 16 green was mown rough.  For a time it was fully sanded.  It was probably sometime before the 1924 Amateur that the quarry was turned into its present state with less formal bunkering, Scots Broom, and sea grasses.

Flynn used triangulation a lot.  It is readily seen at Kittansett, Shinnecock Hills, Boca Raton South, Brinton Lake Club (Concord), Eagles Mere, Huntingdon Valley, Indian Creek, Pocantico Hills, Mill Road Farm, and others.  Windy sites, especially by the sea had several areas where triangulation was used.

[TEPaul]

I remember playing Shinnecock in the old days (this really is a long time ago) and we used to just hit a decent drive somewhere to around the end of the fairway near the down slope and from there it was about a 5-6 iron. Not an easy shot but probably no more difficult than hitting a delicate 60 yard shot to that green from down below today.