[Mark_Fine]

Having spent time researching dozens of great architects for our Hazards book, I find it fascinating to hear people talk about what this architect did and how that idea was the first, etc. etc.  Someone will say for example, “Ross was the first to use random bunkering” or "Thomas was the first to do this or Park was the first to do that" – NOT.  I guess most people who study anything about golf architecture (if they do any studying) it probably has to do with the designer of their home course.  You would expect as much.  But few have the time or inclination to look beyond that and therefore they draw many conclusions that are  

So my question is – what unique contributions (if any) to the field of golf course architecture did the architects of our past and even present contribute to this craft?  I stress the word “UNIQUE”.  It will be interesting to compare notes and see what kind of list this group draws up.
Mark

[Garland Bayley]

From the response I got to

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=26512

it seems the tunnel hole is unique to George Junor's Astoria CC.

[Mark_Fine]

Garland,
Interesting hole.  Do you think this one from San Francisco GC could have inspired it?  

[Sean_A]

Garland,
Interesting hole.  Do you think this one from San Francisco GC could have inspired it?  

Bolsaw

You must have been looking at that chap crawling up the bank when nicked the quote "golf is somewhere between a  religion and a disease".

Ciao

[Mark_Fine]

Bolslaw,
You are probably right, they sure look like "found" holes.  Interesting holes, but probably nothing unique there to golf course design.

[Garland Bayley]

I am sure that Astoria did not copy SF. The holes at Astoria are found holes. The GCA won out with his proposal to use the sand dunes as is over those that wanted to make cuts through them. The fairways at Astoria are as small as 10 yards wide. What' s not unique to that?

[Mark_Fine]

Garland,
I didn't mean to imply the holes were copied.  I was basically stating that the design concept was quite similar particularly compared to your second photo.  I guess you could call the first one "unique".
Mark

[Garland Bayley]

Mark,

It seems that what you don't realize is that they are in the same dune valley. If you could see behind the trees behind the green in each picture, you would see the other green. Therefore, they are twins in uniqueness.

The next row of dunes creates another valley, but at least twice as wide. In that valley, there are greens at either end instead of two greens in the middle like the ones in the first two pictures. The wider valley is one long fairway with a portion shared between the two holes going in opposite directions, because you tee off from opposite dune tops. If you hit it bad enough, you could nail someone teeing off on the tee on the other side going in the opposite direction.

[Mark_Fine]

I did not realize this.  That is unique!  

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

George Thomas might have a truely unique feature--the bunker in the middle of the 6th green at Riviera.  

[Tom_Doak]

Robert:

Thomas himself did not consider that to be a unique feature.  In the old days in Scotland, the "green" was just a certain area around the hole, so pot bunkers close in to the flag were sometimes considered to be within the green.

Mark:

I think Dr. MacKenzie's unique contribution was being the first architect to write expressly about designing courses for the enjoyment of the average golfer ... unless Max Behr beat him to it.  Nearly all of MacKenzie's contemporaries were top-flight players and they were more concerned with shot values for low-handicap men.

[Garland Bayley]

Mark,

Would Forrest's jailhouse staircase, the series of bunkers on the face of a hill leading up to the green, be a unique contribution?

[Mark_Fine]

Tom,
You beat me to it about Thomas and his center of the green bunker.  My guess would have been that most people (who even know about the center of the green bunker at Riv) would assume the same at Robert did.  

Regarding Mackenzie, I'm not sure that the notion of designing courses for the enjoyment of the average golfer was unique to him (or even to Max Behr).  Maybe him "writing" about it was unique?  You could be correct there.  I think you might have to go back to the first "widening of the fairways" at St. Andrews as the first attempt to make golf courses more playable for more golfers.  It was also done to save on expensive lost golf balls  

[Mark_Fine]

Garland,
Knowing Forrest as well as I do     I'm sure he would think so  

I'll let him comment on that one!
Mark

[T_MacWood]

Mark
Are you writing a new book?

[Mark_Fine]

Tom M,
I guess Forrest can't keep his mouth shut    Actually we have an idea we've been kicking around but I think my wife would leave me if I told her about it.  Her name for our Hazards book was "That Damn Book".  Forrest has already written two books and I can't beleive that Valerie has stuck with him through it all  
Mark

[Garland Bayley]

Mark,

I don't remember what is all there, but you might try looking at the following.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=23663

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